The Lexus Build ...... - Page 3 - Drifting forum

BenR · 24-10-2005, 22:36

wouldnt be bothered by FPR's, just size the injectors properly and all is fine.

DriftLexus · 24-10-2005, 23:25

problem with the car at the mo, theres no fuel return, i will be running a fuel cell...swirl/surge tank, ive worked out the requirements that end of it, i.e pumps etc etc

these are the things though i need to get sorted before the car comes over your way

BenR · 24-10-2005, 23:41

any FPR is fine, so long as we know the change with vacuum/boost.

Tom_R · 25-10-2005, 22:37

Newbie question: Does a wastegate blow off excess boost pressure?

ant · 25-10-2005, 22:41

no it vents the exhaust gas before it gets to the turbo so the turbo makes a certain amount of boost

DriftLexus · 01-11-2005, 21:42

the aeromotive one im looking at (FPR) has a 1:1 raising rate

regarding low pressure and high pressure pumps, i need to work out rough requirements.

originally i was going with a low pressure facet red top " works" pump (35 gallon per hour-159 litres per hour @ 6.5-7.2 psi -0.44bar) this was going to feed a 1.5 litre swirl pot then a sytec high pressure pump (34.31 gallons per hour-156 litres per hour @43 psi - 3 bar) would feed the fuel rail

however.......

i read the facet pump is only good to feed for 200hp, im aiming for 400-450

so my Q to the experts is......are the figures above upto running a 2.2 4 cylinder or should i look at something with a little more flow.

i am looking at aeromotive stuff and they have some serious high flow high pressure pumps.....but nothing to feed a swirl pot.

could 2 Facets be used to flow the required amount?, and then use 1 high flow high pressure pump to feed the rail, if so what sort of flow @ what pressure am i needing to find

PhatBob · 01-11-2005, 22:05

A Walbro 255 pump would provide enough fuel at the right pressure for (IIRC) 500bhp.

After that its a job for the Bosch motorsport pump.

Rob

DriftLexus · 01-11-2005, 23:11

i was looking at the walbro stuff, but at the mo its the numbers im looking at, if......if i can get all my componenets from Aeromotive i can get a decent saving

the walbros are in tank units, i have a fuel cell so the pumps need to be external, as a fuel swirl pot is also used, the swirl pot needs supplying by low pressure pump, and then the feed to the rail needs to be done with high pressure

PhatBob · 01-11-2005, 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriftLexus

i was looking at the walbro stuff, but at the mo its the numbers im looking at, if......if i can get all my componenets from Aeromotive i can get a decent saving

the walbros are in tank units, i have a fuel cell so the pumps need to be external, as a fuel swirl pot is also used, the swirl pot needs supplying by low pressure pump, and then the feed to the rail needs to be done with high pressure

Now you're bringing in new specifications!

I used gravity feed for the swirl pot install on my off roader, I guess two Facet pumps in parallel would provide the required flow, but those Facet pumps were really only ever for weber carbed things and belong back in the 20th Century. What do aeromotive suggest for your fuel option?

Rob

BenR · 01-11-2005, 23:33

a low pressure high volume pump to the swirl pot, then the normal high pressure pump to the rail, and a return to pot and tank.

all you need

PhatBob · 02-11-2005, 09:10

You're not going to be needing 400bhp worth of flow at all times, a large swirl pot will act as an accumulator and with the flow from the low pressure pump and return line it will have enough fuel for the requirement peaks.

DriftLexus · 02-11-2005, 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenR

a low pressure high volume pump to the swirl pot, then the normal high pressure pump to the rail, and a return to pot and tank.

all you need

thats the question, which low pressure high volume pump, i cant seem to find any

regarding High pressure pumps other than the sytec one i listed above the Aeromotive one im looking at is good for 700hp

and flows fuel at max over 450lbs an hour at 45psi

and thats not there highest output pump

the aeromotive systems that you can purchase complete dont facilitate the use of a swirl pot, id like to have one due to the fact i will only be using a small 20 litre max fuel cell,

in reality i suppose if i have an idea of fuel flow requirements at what psi then i can go hunt for the correct parts, thats why u guys are the engine builders

...as im hoping you will have ball park figures that i can use

BenR · 02-11-2005, 21:22

plenty of facet pumps around.

As for injecotr sizing, a complete engine spec is needed and bhp area to judge the best injectors to use.

DriftLexus · 02-11-2005, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenR

plenty of facet pumps around.

As for injecotr sizing, a complete engine spec is needed and bhp area to judge the best injectors to use.

so it comes back to the facet, pump i originally said

or 2 in parallel as Rob said

what do you need to know on spec.....or Hp aims that i havnt already said, only thing that hasnt been decided is whats happeneing with the head, because i dont know what is being thought, i was going to remove it 2 weeks ago and get it down to Rob so he could look at the cams. but he told me not to..

as i have said the engine will be running

2.2 low compression pistons and crank
eagle rods
HKS GT2835, internal wastegate

circa 400hp

...nothing has been decided on the headgasket, becuase rob needs to look if he can work with the vvti...for his VEMS......however, before the car comes to rob or yourself ben there are things that need doing, and one of those is the fuel system.

this is why i am asking for those that know these things to be a little more open in the info, so it can be completed correctly.

not wanting to sound ungratefull but the topic so far regarding the fuel system has gone round in circles

i thought by bringing the topic out into the open as i was asked, that the infomation would help others, make the decission about how far to go with builds, and either encourage or show the work involved

the hope is to actually do the rebuild with some form or forethough and planning, and not let the car be idle for months, or keep dragging it around the country

the car is starting to be stripped this weekend, then its being shot blasted.....then hopefully the new cage will be fitted before the new paint is applied.

then the block needs to go in and the fuel system plumbed in.............along with all the basic loom, dash brakes etc etc

so ben, if there is specific info you need to give me the best possible idea of what im going to look for and buy next please ask away, as i thought thats why i was asked to start this topic.

i hope the post doesnt sound to bad...its not ment to.
cheers

mat

DriftLexus · 02-11-2005, 22:25

regarding injectors ive been told that 700cc injectors, will cut the mustard just fine with that turbo and engine capacity, for the HP hoped for, and that the std fuel rail is upto the job in hand, although i am looking for bigger capacity fuel rails, strangley enough Aeromotive do a blank rail, that just needs machining to requirements

im getting the aeromotive FPR and Filters

PhatBob · 02-11-2005, 22:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriftLexus

so it comes back to the facet, pump i originally said

or 2 in series as Rob said

Parallel

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriftLexus

not wanting to sound ungratefull but the topic so far regarding the fuel system has gone round in circles

Closed loop fuel system

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriftLexus

the car is starting to be stripped this weekend, then its being shot blasted.....then hopefully the new cage will be fitted before the new paint is applied.

Might be an idea to shot blast after the cage is fitted, have you a rough date for when you'll be bringing it up, like I said the cage fabricator, Ben and I are all a few miles apart so it might be an idea to bring all the bits that need bringing and heading to the public house to discuss an action plan.

Rob

PhatBob · 02-11-2005, 22:33

Mat, what bore size is the engine you're putting in?

Rob

DriftLexus · 02-11-2005, 22:46

rob the shot blasting has to happen before the cage goes in, as the cage in at the mo will be moved to another car in York...and at the same time i can rough plate any un-needed openeing before the cage is welded in.....this also gives the cage fabricator clean toyota metal to work with .

then it can be brought down to you once im happy that the stuff required to be done is done.......i mean i have no issues with re-collecting the car after the cage is fitted to get more done my end before returning it to you or Ben to get the next stage done.......

the std 3s-ge.................................. bore and stroke is 86 x 86mm @1998cc
with 2,2 low compression.................. bore and stroke is 87 x 93mm @ 2211cc (compression 8:8:1) with std thickness headgasket, normal uptrated ones are .5 thick

BenR · 02-11-2005, 22:50

i was gonna say 600cc injectors, still leaving scope for safety margins.

However, this totally depends on how good your engine builder is and how it is mapped to keep bsfc as low as possible.

DriftLexus · 03-11-2005, 22:03

i was on the understanding Ben....you was doing the engine

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

24-10-2005, 22:36	#41 (permalink)
BenR dorifto kingu! Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 972	wouldnt be bothered by FPR's, just size the injectors properly and all is fine.

24-10-2005, 23:25	#42 (permalink)
DriftLexus BDC Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 3,136	problem with the car at the mo, theres no fuel return, i will be running a fuel cell...swirl/surge tank, ive worked out the requirements that end of it, i.e pumps etc etc these are the things though i need to get sorted before the car comes over your way

24-10-2005, 23:41	#43 (permalink)
BenR dorifto kingu! Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 972	any FPR is fine, so long as we know the change with vacuum/boost.

25-10-2005, 22:37	#44 (permalink)
Tom_R gripper Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 29	Newbie question: Does a wastegate blow off excess boost pressure?

25-10-2005, 22:41	#45 (permalink)
ant R32 GTR-S Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: drugby Posts: 2,905	no it vents the exhaust gas before it gets to the turbo so the turbo makes a certain amount of boost

01-11-2005, 21:42	#46 (permalink)
DriftLexus BDC Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 3,136	the aeromotive one im looking at (FPR) has a 1:1 raising rate regarding low pressure and high pressure pumps, i need to work out rough requirements. originally i was going with a low pressure facet red top " works" pump (35 gallon per hour-159 litres per hour @ 6.5-7.2 psi -0.44bar) this was going to feed a 1.5 litre swirl pot then a sytec high pressure pump (34.31 gallons per hour-156 litres per hour @43 psi - 3 bar) would feed the fuel rail however....... i read the facet pump is only good to feed for 200hp, im aiming for 400-450 so my Q to the experts is......are the figures above upto running a 2.2 4 cylinder or should i look at something with a little more flow. i am looking at aeromotive stuff and they have some serious high flow high pressure pumps.....but nothing to feed a swirl pot. could 2 Facets be used to flow the required amount?, and then use 1 high flow high pressure pump to feed the rail, if so what sort of flow @ what pressure am i needing to find

01-11-2005, 22:05	#47 (permalink)
PhatBob Mr Sir Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Newmarket Posts: 1,556	A Walbro 255 pump would provide enough fuel at the right pressure for (IIRC) 500bhp. After that its a job for the Bosch motorsport pump. Rob

01-11-2005, 23:11	#48 (permalink)
DriftLexus BDC Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 3,136	i was looking at the walbro stuff, but at the mo its the numbers im looking at, if......if i can get all my componenets from Aeromotive i can get a decent saving the walbros are in tank units, i have a fuel cell so the pumps need to be external, as a fuel swirl pot is also used, the swirl pot needs supplying by low pressure pump, and then the feed to the rail needs to be done with high pressure

01-11-2005, 23:33	#50 (permalink)
BenR dorifto kingu! Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 972	a low pressure high volume pump to the swirl pot, then the normal high pressure pump to the rail, and a return to pot and tank. all you need

02-11-2005, 09:10	#51 (permalink)
PhatBob Mr Sir Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Newmarket Posts: 1,556	You're not going to be needing 400bhp worth of flow at all times, a large swirl pot will act as an accumulator and with the flow from the low pressure pump and return line it will have enough fuel for the requirement peaks.

02-11-2005, 21:22	#53 (permalink)
BenR dorifto kingu! Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 972	plenty of facet pumps around. As for injecotr sizing, a complete engine spec is needed and bhp area to judge the best injectors to use.

02-11-2005, 22:25	#55 (permalink)
DriftLexus BDC Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 3,136	regarding injectors ive been told that 700cc injectors, will cut the mustard just fine with that turbo and engine capacity, for the HP hoped for, and that the std fuel rail is upto the job in hand, although i am looking for bigger capacity fuel rails, strangley enough Aeromotive do a blank rail, that just needs machining to requirements im getting the aeromotive FPR and Filters

02-11-2005, 22:33	#57 (permalink)
PhatBob Mr Sir Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Newmarket Posts: 1,556	Mat, what bore size is the engine you're putting in? Rob

02-11-2005, 22:46	#58 (permalink)
DriftLexus BDC Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 3,136	rob the shot blasting has to happen before the cage goes in, as the cage in at the mo will be moved to another car in York...and at the same time i can rough plate any un-needed openeing before the cage is welded in.....this also gives the cage fabricator clean toyota metal to work with . then it can be brought down to you once im happy that the stuff required to be done is done.......i mean i have no issues with re-collecting the car after the cage is fitted to get more done my end before returning it to you or Ben to get the next stage done....... the std 3s-ge.................................. bore and stroke is 86 x 86mm @1998cc with 2,2 low compression.................. bore and stroke is 87 x 93mm @ 2211cc (compression 8:8:1) with std thickness headgasket, normal uptrated ones are .5 thick

02-11-2005, 22:50	#59 (permalink)
BenR dorifto kingu! Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 972	i was gonna say 600cc injectors, still leaving scope for safety margins. However, this totally depends on how good your engine builder is and how it is mapped to keep bsfc as low as possible.

03-11-2005, 22:03	#60 (permalink)
DriftLexus BDC Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Wiltshire Posts: 3,136	i was on the understanding Ben....you was doing the engine