Water powered drift 340 Revelution - Page 3 - Drifting forum

Anton333 · 18-03-2008, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazdachris

I just think the main problem you're going to have is that it's not going to be possible to generate enough hydrogen to power the car as it's going along.

The rate of electrolysis is determined by the current being passed through it. You need to be able to generate massive current in order to ever have a hope of generating enough hydrogen. You're not going to be able to do that off the vehicle's alternator. Plus you have to bear in mind that, at best, you're setup is going to be maybe 50-60% efficient.

I'm not saying the project is without merit. I just think you're treading a patch which is already well worn. If you want to know if it's possible to run a conventional petrol engine on hydrogen then the answer is yes, absolutely. With a few modifications. Plenty of car manufacturers already have these on the market at least for leasing. But these cars all have a fuel tank filled with liquid hydrogen which is generated through other means.

Stan Meyers used a dc pulse wave frequency generator to increase the amount of gas using very little amps so hho on the go I think may be possible

YouTube - Water Car Inventor Murdered!

YouTube - STAN MEYERS WATER CAR

I am interested also in this concept

YouTube - Cold Fusion Plasma 9

mazdachris · 18-03-2008, 19:37

Dude you need to understand the laws of physics - there's no such thing as a reaction which generates more energy than is put into it. It's not physically possible.

Anton333 · 18-03-2008, 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazdachris

Dude you need to understand the laws of physics - there's no such thing as a reaction which generates more energy than is put into it. It's not physically possible.

Well there are allot of things we are not aloud to do but does it stop us? Usually not, as the world no longer flat.

The truth of today will be a lie tomorrow.

My own philosophy is believe nothing but hear everything.

mazdachris · 18-03-2008, 19:50

reading up a bit, it looks to me like Stan Meyers was a conman. sold a load of patents/dealership agreements to people, then they saw no return on the investment. He got taken to court and when it was discovered his supposed perpetual motion 'free energy' car was basically a hoax, he had his ass sued off.

Be careful about being suckered in by stuff like that.

The cold fusion thing is just as much of a hoax. I can't be bothered to dig out the details, but the same thing was reported in the 80s. Chappy said he'd come up with a miracle breakthrough creating energy from water. Sent the schematics off to a load of different academic places for confirmation and not a single one got the same results.

The guy even says he's added potassium!

Anton333 · 18-03-2008, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazdachris

reading up a bit, it looks to me like Stan Meyers was a conman. sold a load of patents/dealership agreements to people, then they saw no return on the investment. He got taken to court and when it was discovered his supposed perpetual motion 'free energy' car was basically a hoax, he had his ass sued off.

Be careful about being suckered in by stuff like that.

The cold fusion thing is just as much of a hoax. I can't be bothered to dig out the details, but the same thing was reported in the 80s. Chappy said he'd come up with a miracle breakthrough creating energy from water. Sent the schematics off to a load of different academic places for confirmation and not a single one got the same results.

The guy even says he's added potassium!

What ever this guy did don't make any odds on me, if all fails it's all abit of fun so I carry on regardless.

mazdachris · 18-03-2008, 19:58

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's not an interesting experiment. But my feeling would be that you should probably discount recreating experiments which have already been proven to be a work of fiction. By all means, convert the car to run on hydrogen and try to find a decent way of generating that hydrogen. But you need to bear the laws of physics in mind. If you don't then you're never going to be successful.

Just a thought, but you know it would be much much quicker and much more energy efficient to cimply convert the car to run on electricity?

Mr Bizzle · 18-03-2008, 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minishonk

thats like saying why do we bother to recycle why dont we just burn all of it? point is even if he does go round burning rubber hes making 1/2 the pollution of the rest of the cars on the track are, so say you have 50 competitors all of them making 1/2 the pollution they usually would tanking it round a track all day it would make a big difference especially if it formed into all types of motorsport an if someone makes it work properly theres no reason why it shouldnt...

if we can clone someone and blow up the world on a touch of a button im sure we can find a substitute for fuel.

what im trying to get at is this guys trying to do the so called impossible so we dont all have to get raped by the goverment which also would lead to our future family having a better life and you dont seem to give a shit.

No mate, your totally right. I don't give a shit - because im not naive enough to believe that spending time and money producing a sustainable energy source is going to save me, your or anybody else any money in the long run. Lots of people stopped using petrol and ran there cars on LPG because it was cheaper and meant that you didn't have to pay the congestion charge. But then they racked up the price of LPG and slung a load of tax on it, now ken has said that LPG cars are no longer CC free. You power a car on water/hydrogen (which dear boy for your information is the single biggest load of bullshit your ever going to hear. EVER. Do you know how much energy it takes to generate hydrogen for the fuel cells? Where the frick do you think that comes from?) then they are going to tax the shit out of hydrogen/water.

Im all for sustainable fuel sorces, im all for creating a less poluted planet and im all for doing our bit to help. But most people are stupid enough to believe that the western worlds sudden leap towards sustainable resources has something to do with "making the planet better" when actually it's about MONEY. Cold hard cash, nothing more than making the western world less dependant on the middle east for it's basic and fundimental inferstructure. That's it. Ziperde do dar.

Anton333 · 18-03-2008, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazdachris

Just a thought, but you know it would be much much quicker and much more energy efficient to cimply convert the car to run on electricity?

I would but I don't fancy all those batteries weighing me down trying to skid

mazdachris · 18-03-2008, 20:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Bizzle

Do you know how much energy it takes to generate hydrogen for the fuel cells? Where the frick do you think that comes from?

Exactly that. If you could find a power source that generated enough power to create hydrogen through electrolysis at a rate equivalent to or greater than the rate at which it's consumed by the internal combustion engine (a device which manages a pretty shocking 40% odd thermal efficiency), you would be much better off just using that power source to power an electric motor which is over 90% efficient. Cleaner, cheaper, much more efficient, and you'd get MUCH more horsepower at the end.

Ye cannae chenge tha laws 'o physics, man!

mazdachris · 18-03-2008, 20:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton333

I would but I don't fancy all those batteries weighing me down trying to skid

This is what's confusing me. If not from batteries, what is going to be generating the power for the electrolysis?

Anton333 · 18-03-2008, 20:26

[quote=Mr Bizzle;688955]No mate, your totally right. I don't give a shit - because im not naive enough to believe that spending time and money producing a sustainable energy source is going to save me, your or anybody else any money in the long run. Lots of people stopped using petrol and ran there cars on LPG because it was cheaper and meant that you didn't have to pay the congestion charge. But then they racked up the price of LPG and slung a load of tax on it, now ken has said that LPG cars are no longer CC free. You power a car on water/hydrogen (which dear boy for your information is the single biggest load of bullshit your ever going to hear. EVER. Do you know how much energy it takes to generate hydrogen for the fuel cells? Where the frick do you think that comes from?) then they are going to tax the shit out of hydrogen/water.

Im all for sustainable fuel sorces,im all for creating a less poluted planet and im all for doing our bit to help. But most people are stupid enough to believe that the western worlds sudden leap towards sustainable resources has something to do with "making the planet better" when actually it's about MONEY. Cold hard cash, nothing more than making the western world less dependant on the middle east for it's basic and fundimental inferstructure. That's it. Ziperde do dar.[/quot

I agree with all in green and that's exactly why the people have to change, not wait for the governments to make the changes. They wont kill their cash cow will they, it's up to us to do it.

You contradict yourself in blue.

[/color]

Mr Bizzle · 18-03-2008, 20:28

Right -
You need a power source for eletrolysis - to create hydrogen. It takes quite a serious amount of power to create enough hydrogen to run a car off for a decent period of time.

This power that you use to create hydrogen from the water comes from either a nuclear reactor, coal burning power station or similar. Which is massivly polluting!

So on a very basic level. Your burning wood and/or rubbish to turn a turbine to create power, which you then use to power a device, that creates hydrogen to power your car, so it's cleaner and only produces H20 as a byproduct.

That is without taking into account that most hydrogen cars are actually hybrids containing batteries and hydrogen fuel cells etc which have a massivly greater lifetime impact on the environment than me driving down the road in the skyline with a rich fuel map, popping flames and burning rubber.

Anton333 · 18-03-2008, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Bizzle

Right -
You need a power source for eletrolysis - to create hydrogen. It takes quite a serious amount of power to create enough hydrogen to run a car off for a decent period of time.

This power that you use to create hydrogen from the water comes from either a nuclear reactor, coal burning power station or similar. Which is massivly polluting!

So on a very basic level. Your burning wood and/or rubbish to turn a turbine to create power, which you then use to power a device, that creates hydrogen to power your car, so it's cleaner and only produces H20 as a byproduct.

That is without taking into account that most hydrogen cars are actually hybrids containing batteries and hydrogen fuel cells etc which have a massivly greater lifetime impact on the environment than me driving down the road in the skyline with a rich fuel map, popping flames and burning rubber.

I never said I was using the conventional method of electrolysis.
Because they said its the only way to skin a cat, you believe them?

Mr Bizzle · 18-03-2008, 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton333

You contradict yourself in blue.

No i don't mate. I was saying that i didn't give a shit about your project, not that i didn't give a shit about sustainable fuel sources.

The above in blue is me replying to your attempts at being a smart ass.

Mr Bizzle · 18-03-2008, 20:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anton333

I never said I was using the conventional method of electrolysis.

So what are you using?
How are you powering it?

mazdachris · 18-03-2008, 20:36

Transubstantiation by the sound of it

Anton333 · 18-03-2008, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Bizzle

No i don't mate. I was saying that i didn't give a shit about your project, not that i didn't give a shit about sustainable fuel sources.

The above in blue is me replying to your attempts at being a smart ass.

Well If you don't give a shit why post here?

mazdachris · 18-03-2008, 20:41

Well Anton, I give a shit, and I'm intrigued to know how you intend to generate your hydrogen. Can you explain it to me because so far all I can see is that you're basing your theories on long-debunked pseudo-science which will never actually work.

Mr Bizzle · 18-03-2008, 20:42

Just for the record. If you have ever done any research into Pulse Detination Turbines, this is very much the way forward for efficent and sustainable engines using the likes of hydrogen. However we are a little way off yet.

Far more efficent engine designs have been around for well over 100 years. Look into Nikola Tesla's "Tesla Turbine" design and then his theoretical research into it. An engine that produces 10hp for every 1lb of weight even back in the 1900's. With modern day alloys your looking at almost 50hp for every lb in weight and significantly more if somebody finds out how to couple it with Pulse Detination technology in a reliable fashion. These engines will run on Hydrogen, Steam, burned condoms. Pretty much anything at almost any pressure but with varying HP and torque figures.

Piston Engines, Diesel Engines even modern day jet engines/tubines are massivly inefficent.

Anton333 · 18-03-2008, 20:46

I can see where this thread is going and if you want to vent your angers please do it else where. I will post no further until I have further advances with more detail, which I hope to have for you guys within the next month or so.........

18-03-2008, 20:26	#51 (permalink)
Anton333 tail slider Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oxford Posts: 77	[quote=Mr Bizzle;688955]No mate, your totally right. I don't give a shit - because im not naive enough to believe that spending time and money producing a sustainable energy source is going to save me, your or anybody else any money in the long run. Lots of people stopped using petrol and ran there cars on LPG because it was cheaper and meant that you didn't have to pay the congestion charge. But then they racked up the price of LPG and slung a load of tax on it, now ken has said that LPG cars are no longer CC free. You power a car on water/hydrogen (which dear boy for your information is the single biggest load of bullshit your ever going to hear. EVER. Do you know how much energy it takes to generate hydrogen for the fuel cells? Where the frick do you think that comes from?) then they are going to tax the shit out of hydrogen/water. Im all for sustainable fuel sorces,im all for creating a less poluted planet and im all for doing our bit to help. But most people are stupid enough to believe that the western worlds sudden leap towards sustainable resources has something to do with "making the planet better" when actually it's about MONEY. Cold hard cash, nothing more than making the western world less dependant on the middle east for it's basic and fundimental inferstructure. That's it. Ziperde do dar.[/quot I agree with all in green and that's exactly why the people have to change, not wait for the governments to make the changes. They wont kill their cash cow will they, it's up to us to do it. You contradict yourself in blue. [/color] Last edited by Anton333 : 18-03-2008 at 20:35.

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18-03-2008, 19:37	#42 (permalink)
mazdachris Jam Hot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MK Posts: 2,015	Dude you need to understand the laws of physics - there's no such thing as a reaction which generates more energy than is put into it. It's not physically possible.

18-03-2008, 19:50	#44 (permalink)
mazdachris Jam Hot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MK Posts: 2,015	reading up a bit, it looks to me like Stan Meyers was a conman. sold a load of patents/dealership agreements to people, then they saw no return on the investment. He got taken to court and when it was discovered his supposed perpetual motion 'free energy' car was basically a hoax, he had his ass sued off. Be careful about being suckered in by stuff like that. The cold fusion thing is just as much of a hoax. I can't be bothered to dig out the details, but the same thing was reported in the 80s. Chappy said he'd come up with a miracle breakthrough creating energy from water. Sent the schematics off to a load of different academic places for confirmation and not a single one got the same results. The guy even says he's added potassium!

18-03-2008, 19:58	#46 (permalink)
mazdachris Jam Hot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MK Posts: 2,015	Yeah, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that it's not an interesting experiment. But my feeling would be that you should probably discount recreating experiments which have already been proven to be a work of fiction. By all means, convert the car to run on hydrogen and try to find a decent way of generating that hydrogen. But you need to bear the laws of physics in mind. If you don't then you're never going to be successful. Just a thought, but you know it would be much much quicker and much more energy efficient to cimply convert the car to run on electricity?

18-03-2008, 20:28	#52 (permalink)
Mr Bizzle Team DWYB Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Beaconsfield, Bucks Posts: 4,006	Right - You need a power source for eletrolysis - to create hydrogen. It takes quite a serious amount of power to create enough hydrogen to run a car off for a decent period of time. This power that you use to create hydrogen from the water comes from either a nuclear reactor, coal burning power station or similar. Which is massivly polluting! So on a very basic level. Your burning wood and/or rubbish to turn a turbine to create power, which you then use to power a device, that creates hydrogen to power your car, so it's cleaner and only produces H20 as a byproduct. That is without taking into account that most hydrogen cars are actually hybrids containing batteries and hydrogen fuel cells etc which have a massivly greater lifetime impact on the environment than me driving down the road in the skyline with a rich fuel map, popping flames and burning rubber.

18-03-2008, 20:36	#56 (permalink)
mazdachris Jam Hot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MK Posts: 2,015	Transubstantiation by the sound of it

18-03-2008, 20:41	#58 (permalink)
mazdachris Jam Hot Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MK Posts: 2,015	Well Anton, I give a shit, and I'm intrigued to know how you intend to generate your hydrogen. Can you explain it to me because so far all I can see is that you're basing your theories on long-debunked pseudo-science which will never actually work.

18-03-2008, 20:42	#59 (permalink)
Mr Bizzle Team DWYB Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Beaconsfield, Bucks Posts: 4,006	Just for the record. If you have ever done any research into Pulse Detination Turbines, this is very much the way forward for efficent and sustainable engines using the likes of hydrogen. However we are a little way off yet. Far more efficent engine designs have been around for well over 100 years. Look into Nikola Tesla's "Tesla Turbine" design and then his theoretical research into it. An engine that produces 10hp for every 1lb of weight even back in the 1900's. With modern day alloys your looking at almost 50hp for every lb in weight and significantly more if somebody finds out how to couple it with Pulse Detination technology in a reliable fashion. These engines will run on Hydrogen, Steam, burned condoms. Pretty much anything at almost any pressure but with varying HP and torque figures. Piston Engines, Diesel Engines even modern day jet engines/tubines are massivly inefficent.

18-03-2008, 20:46	#60 (permalink)
Anton333 tail slider Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oxford Posts: 77	I can see where this thread is going and if you want to vent your angers please do it else where. I will post no further until I have further advances with more detail, which I hope to have for you guys within the next month or so.........