Water powered drift 340 Revelution

[lozza]

Originally Posted by Mr Bizzle

Lozza,
Im not out to argue, im out to get the facts represented properly.

No problem with that at all.

There's only a problem with the way you come across when your out to get the correct facts, maybe you should re-read what you post sometimes as it comes across that you are argumentative (not getting at you, just thought you might like to know).

Anton333- I'll look forward to when you've finished the project! Maybe when its done (if it works or not) you could do a little write up or something?

[Mattyboi]

amen bob.

A toyota prius is a perfect example. As it contains batterys etc it means the polution to make it is savage. A diesel lupo needs four years to offset its polution because of its lower MPG, a prius needs TWELVE YEARS to offset its production. Then the batterys are really hard to dispose of, so its dirtyer again. Also its beaten hands down on MPG by a diesel lupo.

Steer clear of any hybrid car/electric car and get a diesel lupo. And do`nt get me started on hippys in 2cv`s etc.

[PhatBob]

Originally Posted by mazdachris

But the fact is, if people who have a much much better understanding of it than I do can't agree on the process by which oil is created, I'm not really going to be able to give a definitive answer. All I know is that oil is a finite resource and before long it's going to become impractical for use on the scale we've been used to, and there will be consequences to that.

I wasnt demanding that you gave an answer mate It was more of a addition to the mix which is that oil my not be a finite resource. But is something that grows... Now wouldnt that be an interesting twist to the whole debate - "We can add as much CO2 to the atmosphere as the microbes will excrete."

It is definately a resource that we are all dependent on, and therefore those that can control its supply can partly control those of us who're dependent on it. I heard a statement recently that the current price of oil was more to do with the West's policy towards the Middle East, than it was to do with the quantity and availability of oil itself, a little bit like "We can't bomb you turds, but we can grip you around your collected scrotums and squeeeeeeze just a little bit... Does that hurt?"

[PhatBob]

Originally Posted by Mr Bizzle

Yar bobbo
Dat be what i said, innit bruv?

Yeah but my statement was far more eloquent. Perhaps I should consider a career in the media?

[PhatBob]

Originally Posted by Mattyboi

amen bob.

A toyota prius is a perfect example. As it contains batterys etc it means the polution to make it is savage. A diesel lupo needs four years to offset its polution because of its lower MPG, a prius needs TWELVE YEARS to offset its production. Then the batterys are really hard to dispose of, so its dirtyer again. Also its beaten hands down on MPG by a diesel lupo.

Steer clear of any hybrid car/electric car and get a diesel lupo. And do`nt get me started on hippys in 2cv`s etc.

Spot on. The when the batteries for the Prius break down and just become toxic waste, we add more polution and waste in the storage and recyling that will be required.

My solution to the worlds energy crisis is simple and sustainable.

Use stupid people for fuel. Feeding them on low-cost, high-fat Atkins diets will put their bodies into Ketosis, which means we could harvest the acetone in their breath for use as fuel. When their bodies pack up their corpses can be used to fuel power stations where the electricity can be used to split water into hydrogen fuel and power their TV sets on which they can watch mindnumbing daytime TV that can be specially formulated to keep them happy and amused

[mazdachris]

Socio-political factors have always had an effect on the cost of oil. The middle east isn't the only place in the world currently pumping oil, but they do have access to some of the most readily available resources. But you have to accept that for whatever reason, currently demand outstrips supply. China has a massive part in that though, with their prodigious oil consumption and government subsidies which make American fuel prices seem astronomical.

I think you only need look at the fact that the major oil companies are looking increasingly at new drilling/pumping technologies, and at exotic locations like the deep Atlantic, to realise that there's a problem in terms of keeping up with demand. They don't go there for the fun of it, they go there because it's the last place on earth that can supply the demands. And even then, that won't last.

The writing's pretty much on the wall. it has been since the fifties when scientists first started putting their hands in the air and saying "y'know, with our increasing dependency on oil, we're setting ourselves up for a global catastraphe". The only real debate is down to timing. The most optimistic people suggest it will become a major problem in the next hundred years. Some estimations put it closer to a decade. Some even say there's sufficient evidence to say that we have already gone past the peak, and we're sliding down the other side.

So hell, we might as well enjoy it while it lasts because ten years from now, the idea of being able to go to a petrol station and fill up on fuel at just over a quid a litre may seem like a distant memory.

[Mr Bizzle]

Originally Posted by lozza

No problem with that at all.
There's only a problem with the way you come across when your out to get the correct facts, maybe you should re-read what you post sometimes as it comes across that you are argumentative (not getting at you, just thought you might like to know).

Yep,
I know i come across as argumentative.
Don't worry sweet pea, it's totally intentional.
So is the arogence.
And the patronising nature in which i reply to critical posts.

[lozza]

Originally Posted by Mr Bizzle

So is the arogence.

arrogance

I'll bear that in mind my darling *notes* Bizzle uses arrogance and patronising comments to make himself feel better about being critised.

[Mr Bizzle]

Originally Posted by lozza

arrogance

I'll bear that in mind my darling *notes* Bizzle uses arrogance and patronising comments to make himself feel better about being critised.

Excelent
You know i have a lot of love for you lozza.
Maybe we can have dinner some time?

[lozza]

Originally Posted by Mr Bizzle

Excelent
You know i have a lot of love for you lozza.
Maybe we can have dinner some time?

Oh Bizzle, do try and keep your affections private my dear.

[Mr Bizzle]

Originally Posted by lozza

Oh Bizzle, do try and keep your affections private my dear.

Well, when you keep calling me "dear" and making such obvious advances...

What do you expect a guy to do?

[lozza]

Originally Posted by Mr Bizzle

Well, when you keep calling me "dear" and making such obvious advances...

What do you expect a guy to do?

Stop spamming the thread generally

[royal]

Interesting thread. Shame the thread starter hasn't actually come back with any answers. I do agree with Mr Bizzle personally anyhow though. Too much green scamming and propaganda going on at the moment and people not able to take the time to look at the (lack of) facts.

[PhatBob]

Originally Posted by mazdachris

Socio-political factors have always had an effect on the cost of oil. The middle east isn't the only place in the world currently pumping oil, but they do have access to some of the most readily available resources. But you have to accept that for whatever reason, currently demand outstrips supply. China has a massive part in that though, with their prodigious oil consumption and government subsidies which make American fuel prices seem astronomical.

I think you only need look at the fact that the major oil companies are looking increasingly at new drilling/pumping technologies, and at exotic locations like the deep Atlantic, to realise that there's a problem in terms of keeping up with demand. They don't go there for the fun of it, they go there because it's the last place on earth that can supply the demands. And even then, that won't last.

The writing's pretty much on the wall. it has been since the fifties when scientists first started putting their hands in the air and saying "y'know, with our increasing dependency on oil, we're setting ourselves up for a global catastraphe". The only real debate is down to timing. The most optimistic people suggest it will become a major problem in the next hundred years. Some estimations put it closer to a decade. Some even say there's sufficient evidence to say that we have already gone past the peak, and we're sliding down the other side.

So hell, we might as well enjoy it while it lasts because ten years from now, the idea of being able to go to a petrol station and fill up on fuel at just over a quid a litre may seem like a distant memory.

One of the major factors in deep sea drilling is that its now economically viable to do so, the oil companies are out to exploit these new fields because of newer technology and because they have such a ready market to sell to, who are happy to pay high prices for oil.

A few years ago I worked as part of a team developing a new technology in Ocean seismic surveying which allowed them to go into deeper water than they'd managed before, the ocean bottom mapping was always done years before any thoughts of drilling came in to the picture, and they were searching there because they were banking on barrel costs rising to the point where it was economically viable to drill.

Even though its more costly now than its ever been, fuel is not really that expensive, we have oil heating at home, it costs us 50quid a month to heat our house. Our phone bills, and internet cost over 70quid a month, we think our heating costs a lot, but dont really think much about the phone bills. A litre of Evian costs more than a litre of fuel.

[Anton333]

Updated first post

[mazdachris]

Originally Posted by Anton333

UPDATE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ok how I made the cell was very simple. I used 7 stainless steel baking trays and cut holes in them and bolted them together using plastic spacers to keep them from contacting each other and then wired some as positive and negative and the rest neutral(no connection)
I then connected two battery leads to it and droped it in a bucket of water and connected it to a car battery and this happened>>>>>

A few weeks later I made up a simple cell housing container and outlet pipe to a bubbler bottle used as a flame trap as you can see in the next videos

So I decided to give it a go.

Thought I'd quote for anyone interested.

By the sounds of it your setup is something like this:



Two things to point out - the first is that this is electrolysis. Nothing more, nothing less. The second is that no matter how efficient your means of electrolysis, when we understand the laws of conservation of energy, we have to accept that the chemical energy of the resulting gas is only ever going to be equal to or less than the amount of electrical energy put into the process. Most likely at least 10-20% less, if we're being super generous. And the energy which is being put into the process is going to be generated by the car's alternator, which will only generate about 10% of the energy being put into the engine in the form of fuel. This is to say that the system is full of energy loss. It's not even close to be a perpetual motion device. I'm sorry dude, I'm not trying to have a go at you, it's just that you're trying to do something wich violates the laws of thermodynamics.

[Razer]

Hmm, Now I've read this whole thread, and although there's none of the technicalitys I will comment due to lack of knowledge, I will call the man a genius. In a way.

Not that I believe it will work, and if so, probably not well. But think publicity...
This dude could actually try to promote his project in the media, and actually get sponsors for the "1st all green drift car". He may never make it, but he actually is in a position to get his playtime in the backyard funded by some stupid company that tries to have an environmental friendly profile... You never know. Of course, over time, some professors of this and that will come on breakfast shows and fend this off as a silly idea based on poor research, but he will live on. Stupid people(89% of this worlds population or so...) likes a crazy nut, so maybe he can actually keep it on for quite a while...

[ringer]

I'm pretty sure I saw a Scrapheap challenge where they built a tomato launcher using hydrogen that was separated from distilled water, but I honestly have NO idea how it worked. It didn't work very well though, I think the tomato exploded in the barrel.

[Anton333]

Originally Posted by mazdachris

Thought I'd quote for anyone interested.

By the sounds of it your setup is something like this:



Two things to point out - the first is that this is electrolysis. Nothing more, nothing less. The second is that no matter how efficient your means of electrolysis, when we understand the laws of conservation of energy, we have to accept that the chemical energy of the resulting gas is only ever going to be equal to or less than the amount of electrical energy put into the process. Most likely at least 10-20% less, if we're being super generous. And the energy which is being put into the process is going to be generated by the car's alternator, which will only generate about 10% of the energy being put into the engine in the form of fuel. This is to say that the system is full of energy loss. It's not even close to be a perpetual motion device. I'm sorry dude, I'm not trying to have a go at you, it's just that you're trying to do something wich violates the laws of thermodynamics.

Well I have to thank you for the diagram, it's about wright.
From research it a very inefficient cell set up. I only made this one because it was the materials at hand and I wanted to see if it could produce any results.

I am aware of the laws of 'conservation of energy' but may be not having rules can open the possibilities.

Every one said the world was flat but Columbus still had to go find out for himself.

Ok if sticking to the book of modern sciance which most of which is dated back 300 odd ears almost like the bible has many takers is the safe thing to do then be safe.
I was never a follower. I like to think outside the box as it's a vaster world out there.

Also I posted this up here not for any false fame and not trying to sell anything not looking for inverters as I have nothing new yet. All I'm doing is having a go and I'm not a scientist. The main reason I post it here is maybe someone else is interested in the concept and also try some experiments and see what can spark of from it.

Only good can come from it weather it works or not as it's all hands on learning rather being spoon fed science funded by the oil industries.

[Anton333]

Originally Posted by skyvia

Your crazy

Seriously thou cool!
How efficient is it though ? seen as you thought they would have started using this on a more wide spread scale.

It's not the best setup , it was the first attempt and probably not as efficient as it could be as after it is powered for a while it gets harm and brings the water temperature up to about 40 degrees c.

I have just got a wave and pulse generator to do further tests. This may cause more turbulence in the electrolysis thus hopefully producing moor hho gas.