Whats wrong with S12 Silvias?? - Page 2 - Drifting forum

superclarkey · 20-02-2007, 17:10

E30 for sale for £750... way cooler then a silvia imho

1990 BMW 325i Beater £750ono

docwra · 20-02-2007, 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by superclarkey

Everything about the silvia sucks balls..

Good reasoned argument there - thanks for that.

The 325 for £750 looks good mind you. Pretty fcuked if you want more power, but what the hey

So I take it an Ovlov 3-series is a better starter car in your opinion than an S12 as well then, right

mazdachris · 20-02-2007, 17:56

Surely if you wanted more power then you'd buy something like an S14 etc? The whole point of cars like this is something cheap to spazz about in when you're just learning, not when you're hammering corners at full lock in 3rd and 4th gear. Point I gather with the S12 is that there's a lot that can go wrong, and for the potenntial of frickupery, they don't really have any redeeming points to convince you to buy them. They're hard to find, parts are rare/expensive, they're not reliable and apparently they're not even that good to drift. At least with the Volvo you can find them for pennies and they're all over the place. They might not be any better for drifting but at least if they fall to pieces you can just transfer your drifty parts to another one for just a couple of hundred, without any real hassle.

pitbull turbo · 20-02-2007, 18:03

spot on chris.
not only that but the bm can be turboed with not to much hassle.

steerfromtherear · 20-02-2007, 18:05

You can get plenty of 318is, 320, 323, and 325's for £500. I bet you can find more of them than you can s12's worth owning at that price at any one time?

docwra · 20-02-2007, 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazdachris

Surely if you wanted more power then you'd buy something like an S14 etc? The whole point of cars like this is something cheap to spazz about in when you're just learning, not when you're hammering corners at full lock in 3rd and 4th gear.

An S14 is at least £2.5K - as I said, the 12 Ive got cost me £300, and the one Im selling will be up for around £600. Is your first drift car really only for 2nd gear antics - once you get any better you should sell it and buy something for thousands, or maybe its good to be able to stick with what youve got but still be able to mix it and practice on bigger, faster circuits??

Quote:

They might not be any better for drifting but at least if they fall to pieces you can just transfer your drifty parts to another one for just a couple of hundred, without any real hassle.

This is my point though - they arent anywhere near as good for drifting (IMO) as they are underpowered and heavy, and start life as a family saloon. Admittedly, with any turbo car the HG is more likely to go for instance, but there are benefits (like power and tuneability) that go with it. If it breaks, then find another, same as anything else - I dont think they are that difficult to come by, but then Ive been keeping an eye out for a while now

docwra · 20-02-2007, 18:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitbull turbo

spot on chris.
not only that but the bm can be turboed with not to much hassle.

That kind of throws the price and reliability arguments out of the window though, doesnt it??

mazdachris · 20-02-2007, 18:25

Why have you asked for people's opinions when you're just going to defend your beloved S12 no matter what anyone says?

Drifting isn't about power. I used to have no problem swinging my Mazda sideways even in 3rd. It takes more comitment, but it's possible. You can make any car more powerful, but proper handling is something which comes from the chassis, and for that there is no replacement.

turbo haus touge · 20-02-2007, 18:30

i love s12s i had one as my first proper drifter i think there jus fine im wiv DOCWRA!!

I preferd the engine response to the det too

robbs · 20-02-2007, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by docwra

as they are underpowered and heavy, and start life as a family saloon.

e30's aren't heavy only 11hundred something kilo's i think

.

docwra · 20-02-2007, 18:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazdachris

Why have you asked for people's opinions when you're just going to defend your beloved S12 no matter what anyone says?

Im not defending my beloved S12 - I drive an S13 and prefer it. Considerably prefer it in fact. If truth be told, I prefer MX5's as well

I wanted to know why they werent seen as a viable alternative to the E30, Ovlov and Sierra namely, and apart from the rarity of them I havent seen a decent reason yet. As I see it the tuneability and layout of the car make it a better bet than at least the second two - the E30 is a bit different to be fair as its got a decent grunty engine, good balance and a "drivers car" attitude to it to start with.

If you wanted to make your MX more competitive, you would be looking at more power for it, no way around it, same with the others. Rather than spend £100's on a turbo kit, I could go pick up a T25 for the sweat off my balls and fit it in a couple of hours, or a T28, or a T3 and some new injectors, or etc...........

Im not saying they are the be all and end all, I just wondered why you didnt see more of them on here or at your average drift day. Apologies if you were looking for something a bit more argumentative. They just seem to be overlooked a lot when n00bs are asking about what a good drift car is.

BTW, underpowered and heavy was referring to the 340, not the bimmer

Mad Cas · 20-02-2007, 19:14

S12 Isn't used as much

A] becuase they are a little rarer now, used to see them a lot for cheap meney and a few in scrappies, less so now.

2] They have little or no cred 'JDM' wise, has not been used recently by any big name japanese drifters and very rarely features in dori-ten or option vids, so that rules it out with the mainstream gimp fan club.

III] They can be a bastard to get off the shelf parts for, even though with a little imagination and in some cases engineering/fabrication you can get a bunch of S13 stuff to fit, and if you can get the wiring done a CA18DET or SR is a bolt in conversion.

But they are a great bit of kit, I used to have one pretty much standard with just a welder in it, was fine. My only criticism was it handled like a stock sierra, which isn't what you expect when you look at the car.

And all you people that reckon it looks cheesy/crusty/out of date, it looks a lot like an AE86 Trueno and most of you hero worship those bastard things!

SHEZ_S12 · 20-02-2007, 19:18

i own an s12, which is in near perfect condition (as in no rust, no carpark dents etc)
i payed 250 for that one, i bought another for 175, which had a years mot and tax, so cashed in the tax..

free car!!
however this one was rotten but was good for what i wanted

iv been running 13psi in mine for about 10months and it still runs sweet as a nut..
im in the process of building a ca18det for it!

in total buying the three cars they only owe me about £700!!

MJG · 20-02-2007, 20:20

They are good in theory, I couldn't give a great performance/technical reason for them being bad, just said I personally have something against them and don't like them lol.

The rarity and crustiness of them is the other thing against them.

As for steering lock, the e30 rocks, it has 43degrees

I agree though, it could be a decent alternative to a sierra or volvo, but it would be good to have a less powerful car that was more reliable for the first drift car IMO. Having a crusty old turbocharged car when on a tiny budget where a £50 turbo is still quite a lot of money, as well as the oil changes etc.

Nick · 20-02-2007, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJG

, as well as the oil changes etc.

what the frick would you know about oil changes and car maintenance, you bought a car and took it on track and didnt even check to see how much oil was in it..then it blewedupaded.

so shut your cake encrusted mouth.

regarding s12's i drove one at bovingdon, it was lovely, one of the nicest cars ever drifted. especially in terms of budget minded vehicles.

preferred drifting it to s13 for sure.

MJG · 21-02-2007, 10:20

Nick that comment was pointless, I'm saying you'd have to account for oil changes especially when changing turbos and stuff. I know I'm not a good example but that has nothing to do with what I said.

Nick · 21-02-2007, 10:29

you are gay shut up

MJG · 21-02-2007, 11:30

Ok now that had a reason so fair enough

Sidetracked1 · 26-02-2007, 20:19

I just picked up an s12/200sx to learn to drift w/. I had one as my first car a long time ago... so I guess I'm partial to them because of the memories. But i just happend to come across 2 at a local junk yard last week.

I'm going to go down next week after I get paid and pull what ever looks decent off both bodies fo extirior parts most of then looked good. one was and 85 and the other was an 87. If anyone needs prats off of them let me know.

I'm in the US and dont know where you need them shipped to but I'd hate to see anything usable off these cars get crushed. I really dont need anything off of them but I'd hate to need something later and know I missed out on it.

GmasterT · 27-02-2007, 00:26

Im with doc on this (as i have made his s12 drift car a drift car and also crashed it

) and brought this point up a long time ago.

It is imo the best learner car out there, you can get nigh on 200 tourquey bhp for about £80-100 more than you paid for it (saab ic, airfilter, bleed valve, bodge exhaust), cut the springs for decent enough handling but enough to teach you weight shift, and go and hold sideways very well and comfortably. The ET lump is simple and fairly indestructable (certainly seems stronger than a DET) and the lag is minimul even at 15psi on the standard T2, which gives you loads of grunt anyway. As for the lock, its no worse than an S13, the only let down is the handbrake, but its 'tramp' rivals are no betterin that department anyway!

Anyway, if I was to start a drift school I would have a load of S12's, easy to drift, simple, reliable and fecking suprisingly quick to 90!

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20-02-2007, 17:10	#21 (permalink)
superclarkey Mood=Amazing Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: West Midlands Posts: 7,958	E30 for sale for £750... way cooler then a silvia imho 1990 BMW 325i Beater £750ono

20-02-2007, 17:56	#23 (permalink)
mazdachris more cowbell Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MK Posts: 1,656	Surely if you wanted more power then you'd buy something like an S14 etc? The whole point of cars like this is something cheap to spazz about in when you're just learning, not when you're hammering corners at full lock in 3rd and 4th gear. Point I gather with the S12 is that there's a lot that can go wrong, and for the potenntial of frickupery, they don't really have any redeeming points to convince you to buy them. They're hard to find, parts are rare/expensive, they're not reliable and apparently they're not even that good to drift. At least with the Volvo you can find them for pennies and they're all over the place. They might not be any better for drifting but at least if they fall to pieces you can just transfer your drifty parts to another one for just a couple of hundred, without any real hassle.

20-02-2007, 18:03	#24 (permalink)
pitbull turbo spl dori master Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 316	spot on chris. not only that but the bm can be turboed with not to much hassle.

20-02-2007, 18:05	#25 (permalink)
steerfromtherear dorifto kingu! Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Somerset Posts: 3,075	You can get plenty of 318is, 320, 323, and 325's for £500. I bet you can find more of them than you can s12's worth owning at that price at any one time?

20-02-2007, 18:25	#28 (permalink)
mazdachris more cowbell Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MK Posts: 1,656	Why have you asked for people's opinions when you're just going to defend your beloved S12 no matter what anyone says? Drifting isn't about power. I used to have no problem swinging my Mazda sideways even in 3rd. It takes more comitment, but it's possible. You can make any car more powerful, but proper handling is something which comes from the chassis, and for that there is no replacement.

20-02-2007, 18:30	#29 (permalink)
turbo haus touge v.p.a painter! Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,210	i love s12s i had one as my first proper drifter i think there jus fine im wiv DOCWRA!! I preferd the engine response to the det too

20-02-2007, 19:14	#32 (permalink)
Mad Cas Libertine Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bat Country Posts: 5,047	S12 Isn't used as much A] becuase they are a little rarer now, used to see them a lot for cheap meney and a few in scrappies, less so now. 2] They have little or no cred 'JDM' wise, has not been used recently by any big name japanese drifters and very rarely features in dori-ten or option vids, so that rules it out with the mainstream gimp fan club. III] They can be a bastard to get off the shelf parts for, even though with a little imagination and in some cases engineering/fabrication you can get a bunch of S13 stuff to fit, and if you can get the wiring done a CA18DET or SR is a bolt in conversion. But they are a great bit of kit, I used to have one pretty much standard with just a welder in it, was fine. My only criticism was it handled like a stock sierra, which isn't what you expect when you look at the car. And all you people that reckon it looks cheesy/crusty/out of date, it looks a lot like an AE86 Trueno and most of you hero worship those bastard things!

20-02-2007, 19:18	#33 (permalink)
SHEZ_S12 tail slider Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 114	i own an s12, which is in near perfect condition (as in no rust, no carpark dents etc) i payed 250 for that one, i bought another for 175, which had a years mot and tax, so cashed in the tax.. free car!! however this one was rotten but was good for what i wanted iv been running 13psi in mine for about 10months and it still runs sweet as a nut.. im in the process of building a ca18det for it! in total buying the three cars they only owe me about £700!!

20-02-2007, 20:20	#34 (permalink)
MJG Most wanted Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Derby, England Posts: 9,429	They are good in theory, I couldn't give a great performance/technical reason for them being bad, just said I personally have something against them and don't like them lol. The rarity and crustiness of them is the other thing against them. As for steering lock, the e30 rocks, it has 43degrees I agree though, it could be a decent alternative to a sierra or volvo, but it would be good to have a less powerful car that was more reliable for the first drift car IMO. Having a crusty old turbocharged car when on a tiny budget where a £50 turbo is still quite a lot of money, as well as the oil changes etc.

21-02-2007, 10:20	#36 (permalink)
MJG Most wanted Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Derby, England Posts: 9,429	Nick that comment was pointless, I'm saying you'd have to account for oil changes especially when changing turbos and stuff. I know I'm not a good example but that has nothing to do with what I said.

21-02-2007, 10:29	#37 (permalink)
Nick You are a joke Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 6,238	you are gay shut up

21-02-2007, 11:30	#38 (permalink)
MJG Most wanted Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Derby, England Posts: 9,429	Ok now that had a reason so fair enough

26-02-2007, 20:19	#39 (permalink)
Sidetracked1 gripper Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 5	I just picked up an s12/200sx to learn to drift w/. I had one as my first car a long time ago... so I guess I'm partial to them because of the memories. But i just happend to come across 2 at a local junk yard last week. I'm going to go down next week after I get paid and pull what ever looks decent off both bodies fo extirior parts most of then looked good. one was and 85 and the other was an 87. If anyone needs prats off of them let me know. I'm in the US and dont know where you need them shipped to but I'd hate to see anything usable off these cars get crushed. I really dont need anything off of them but I'd hate to need something later and know I missed out on it.

27-02-2007, 00:26	#40 (permalink)
GmasterT shall return!! Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Under an S-body Posts: 1,119	Im with doc on this (as i have made his s12 drift car a drift car and also crashed it ) and brought this point up a long time ago. It is imo the best learner car out there, you can get nigh on 200 tourquey bhp for about £80-100 more than you paid for it (saab ic, airfilter, bleed valve, bodge exhaust), cut the springs for decent enough handling but enough to teach you weight shift, and go and hold sideways very well and comfortably. The ET lump is simple and fairly indestructable (certainly seems stronger than a DET) and the lag is minimul even at 15psi on the standard T2, which gives you loads of grunt anyway. As for the lock, its no worse than an S13, the only let down is the handbrake, but its 'tramp' rivals are no betterin that department anyway! Anyway, if I was to start a drift school I would have a load of S12's, easy to drift, simple, reliable and fecking suprisingly quick to 90!