Drifting on LPG - Drifting forum

Stu.750 · 07-07-2008, 23:24

With the price of fuel threw the roof has anyone thought about running their cars on LPG

at 54p a litre and an octane rating of about 110 ron do you out there think it would be viable , i have 2 LPG filling stations on my way to work

i know there wouldnt be a kit for the 200sx or similar but it wouldnt be that difficult to get one to adapt toa turboed 4 pot

i know the tanks are large but surely this could be used to your advantage in weight distribution ?

Any thoughts ?

skyludeboy · 07-07-2008, 23:57

some dudes in sxoc have lpged their cars you need to search for it i remember seeing pictures on there a while back, they do have a huge tank in the boot

Bolf · 08-07-2008, 00:09

Used to install lpg for a living. Its good as long as you use a multi point kit. Also useful for mapping , as its mapped in the same way as other aftermarket ecu's .
Turbo cars aren't a problem. And it actually helps the turbo as it run's cleaner.
If i was building a kit car i'd build it on lpg only with large tanks.

Maximus Driftus · 08-07-2008, 00:14

I think there's something in bdc and edc regs against lpg - not sure... but for practice days and general dori action could be good idea...

G-Man · 08-07-2008, 00:20

i'm genually interested in this...i've failed miserably on the sxoc though...long story...if anyone finds anything could you copy it to here?

neil a walker · 08-07-2008, 00:55

lpg's like 111 ron! its bloody dragfuel really, but you know that once you shell out £1500 for the fitting the bastard govenrment will stop the cheapness and bung it up to 85p a litre and then you'll spent the whole time crying on your knees

but... then again, you've got the option to run on twin fuels
as they say in jazz club.... "nice"

Corbs · 08-07-2008, 08:32

Doesnt it give you 10% less mpg and 10% less power though?

DoriDave · 08-07-2008, 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corbs

Doesnt it give you 10% less mpg and 10% less power though?

I think you do loose a little power, but there are advantages too. You engine will also run a little cooler, therefore making it last an incy bit longer!

Daddy_D · 08-07-2008, 12:37

You should not consider LPG for a performance car. There are too many disadvantages and nonsense as well. First of all LPG aka propan butan bottles are very heavy (methanol even heavier) that all the weight you lost from stripping the car is put back on. Second I wouldn't advice going for 50 liter bottle to save on weight because I can only manage 100km and had to switch to benzin to go home. 100 liter is a must. The main reasons why you don't want the converstion is because if you car does 9l/100km the consumption goes to 13l/100km. Corbs whoever said or estimated 10% power loss is a bit short on truth. I won't give it 50% but I'd say............maybe 35% but it's vehicle dependent. Turbo? Put 50% for me then. You will probably save more money by detuning the turbo or removing it completely from your SR20's.

This is my opinion at least. I drove a Golf Mk2, Audi 80, Passat Mk3-4, Lada all on LPG and although I liked it, those cars were run around which is the whole point of LPG. I don't use it anymore and now I drive on Methanol which is a bit dangerous as it doesn't smell and you don't know when your bottle is leaking. Don't worry this stuff is not available in UK. The device is different too. Oh yeah, last summer I managed 130km/h top speed in a 1.6 Golf Mk2 so that kinda speak for itself. And one more important thing to consider. You probably going to suggest 'what if I get the auto switch type, so I can change instantly inside the cabin?'. Well as BOLF already mentioned car must be tuned via ECU, so switching back to benzin some times can cause missfire, but even if it's running smooth the ECU is already mapped to run on LPG and performance is gone down the drain.

p.s Niko if you going to ask me again where I got my facts from, I use this site so check it out: Yahoo! Answers - Home

David Reid · 08-07-2008, 12:46

Sorry but are you really trying to say a switch to LPG will give a 50% power drop on a turbo car??

How do you explain that?

If you advanced the ignition to suit the new octain ratio I dont see why you could get back to the original power as the calorific value isn't far of 95 and it gives additional IAT cooling effect.

DoriDave · 08-07-2008, 12:52

Vauxhall championed an LPG Vectra in their one makes series, wasn't eligible for points but did very well indeed! The hotter the other cars got they lost power, cos the LPG ran cooler it seemed to go better than the Petrol based cars. All near-on identical cars too!

Tony N · 08-07-2008, 12:53

I think the power loss from LPG is due to it displacing part of the intake charge as it changes back to gas during injection, therefore this effect would be reduced with forced induction as (obviously) the charge is compressed.

Dogs Danglies · 08-07-2008, 13:06

I thought LPG cars had higher exhaust gas temps? Not sure how true that is but its what I heard.

I had a LPG e30 for a short while, ran fine for a run about, but the conversion looked a bit mickey mouse, so wasn't confident about drifting on it, think it was a single point injection, I wasn't too sure what the consequence of running a bit lean was so never bothered ragging it on gas.

If I was to LPG my own car, I'd probably just buy a cheap motor on ebay thats already had a conversion then strip all the gubbins out and swap it all over, there are loads of Landy Discos etc on gas which sell for buttons.

cr33ch · 08-07-2008, 13:30

umm i think this is what they were on about on the sxoc

SXOC Bulletin Board

this only a link to it being for sale but im sure if u PM'ed the guy he'd be happy to tell u his experience with LPG.

I feel its a great idea for the time being maybe buy one already with the conversion already fitted, but im sure its gonna start catching up with petrol in the not too distant future and will stop seeing any advantages doing the conversion yourself

Daddy_D · 08-07-2008, 14:04

Fair enough if you setup the ECU to perform at it's best on a gas, but you should expect 15-16 liters per 100km. In perspective thats cars like Hummer, Land Rover etc that do 8 mile to the gallon. LPG is usually setup with economy in mind rather than performance otherwise the whole concept is lost.

The Vauxhall race car on LPG sounds like the WTCC 320is 4 cylinder engines producing 280hp. It's some thing I can't achieve with a 10k in my bank.

niko · 08-07-2008, 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddy_D

... p.s Niko if you going to ask me again where I got my facts from, I use this site so check it out: Yahoo! Answers - Home

Haha...only thing I'd question is the reliability of that source for highly technical and thus complex issues, which you refer to as facts. Remember, anyone can answer that webpage, and therefore also attracts the so-called internet gurus, who know everything about anything. Best answer...according to who? Another inet guru?

Nevertheless, I'd say running LPG on a 'drifter' which is also a dailydriver might be beneficial in the long run, but for a 'track-only drifter' I'd do some basic maths to calculate if there are any financial benefits. Remember, for those ca. £2000 for the kit/installation, you'll get ca. 1600+ litres of petrol, which means you can go to more than 50 DWYBs or whatnot, assuming you've spending ca. 30 litres/session. And that covers the kit/installation, not the actual LPG you'll end up using, which isn't free either, plus the consumption is higher than on petrol.

What comes to performance, I'd put my money on not losing significant power if a high-quality LPG kit is installed/mapped properly. I'm sure someone who has actually fitted LPG-sets professionally can confirm that. But I've got limited knowledge on this topic anyway.

Jak · 08-07-2008, 16:43

My Dad's got a 1992 Discovery V8, which is on LPG, it has a pair of 35ltr tanks underneath, and he gets around 180 miles between fill ups. It has a switch inside where you can change between petrol and LPG, and its noticably quicker on petrol, but that said, we were going down the motorway the other day at a constant 85mph, with ease. You could always get it mapped to make it faster if you wanted.

By the way it smells funny and the smell follows the car wherever it goes lol

Bolf · 08-07-2008, 17:47

If a car uses multi point lpg system and is mapped well , the same or better powers are possible.

The guy above slating it sounds like he's only driven the old fashioned mixer type system's . The only adjustments are base idle and full load mixture. Wank

I've mapped a Ford v8 pickup on a multi point injection system and GAINED 20% over factory figs on a rolling road..

Subaru wrx's respond well to lpg.

No reason why sr20 wouldn't .

Stu.750 · 08-07-2008, 19:13

Im not talking about even using a Dual fuel set up im talking a full conversion

utilising injectors and equipment selected for the vehicles performance and usage - a no compromise so to speak

Does the LPG have different burn/thermodynamic properties to petrol hence the loss in power ?

and i wouldnt be buying a kit , lots of research and careful selection would make a conversion ALOT cheaper than the 2k that people seem to charge ?

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddy_D

LPG is usually setup with economy in mind rather than performance otherwise the whole concept is lost.

Not when its half the price and more than a optimax/high octane fuel ?

Thanks fot the replies though its food for though , plus it would give me a warm fuzzy feeling to be destroying tyres and robbign the goverment at the same time

suprmek1 · 08-07-2008, 21:08

A well tuned LPG built the same as petrol system like bolf has said multi point inection and mapped fully will out do a petrol car any day of the weak as said earlier its equivilent to running a higher ron fuel.

If your rebuilding ans SR to run 400bhp ie injectors ECU and re-map, its going to be only slightly more expensive to do it on LPG needing a fuel tank aswell. and i'd bet the lpg one would do better. It's something I plan to do anyway but not on an Sr

07-07-2008, 23:24	#1 (permalink)
Stu.750 gripper Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 12	Drifting on LPG With the price of fuel threw the roof has anyone thought about running their cars on LPG at 54p a litre and an octane rating of about 110 ron do you out there think it would be viable , i have 2 LPG filling stations on my way to work i know there wouldnt be a kit for the 200sx or similar but it wouldnt be that difficult to get one to adapt toa turboed 4 pot i know the tanks are large but surely this could be used to your advantage in weight distribution ? Any thoughts ?

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07-07-2008, 23:57	#2 (permalink)
skyludeboy ON A DRIVEWAY Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: LONDON TOWN Posts: 1,019	some dudes in sxoc have lpged their cars you need to search for it i remember seeing pictures on there a while back, they do have a huge tank in the boot

08-07-2008, 00:09	#3 (permalink)
Bolf www.manfoot.in Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Home: Manchester / Work: All over the UK Posts: 1,762	Used to install lpg for a living. Its good as long as you use a multi point kit. Also useful for mapping , as its mapped in the same way as other aftermarket ecu's . Turbo cars aren't a problem. And it actually helps the turbo as it run's cleaner. If i was building a kit car i'd build it on lpg only with large tanks.

08-07-2008, 00:14	#4 (permalink)
Maximus Driftus dorifto kingu! Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: sunny Texas! Posts: 669	I think there's something in bdc and edc regs against lpg - not sure... but for practice days and general dori action could be good idea...

08-07-2008, 00:20	#5 (permalink)
G-Man i do skids Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Grantham Posts: 947	i'm genually interested in this...i've failed miserably on the sxoc though...long story...if anyone finds anything could you copy it to here?

08-07-2008, 00:55	#6 (permalink)
neil a walker spl dori master Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: the shire Posts: 453	lpg's like 111 ron! its bloody dragfuel really, but you know that once you shell out £1500 for the fitting the bastard govenrment will stop the cheapness and bung it up to 85p a litre and then you'll spent the whole time crying on your knees but... then again, you've got the option to run on twin fuels as they say in jazz club.... "nice"

08-07-2008, 08:32	#7 (permalink)
Corbs gripper Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 23	Doesnt it give you 10% less mpg and 10% less power though?

08-07-2008, 12:37	#9 (permalink)
Daddy_D D1 street king Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,020	You should not consider LPG for a performance car. There are too many disadvantages and nonsense as well. First of all LPG aka propan butan bottles are very heavy (methanol even heavier) that all the weight you lost from stripping the car is put back on. Second I wouldn't advice going for 50 liter bottle to save on weight because I can only manage 100km and had to switch to benzin to go home. 100 liter is a must. The main reasons why you don't want the converstion is because if you car does 9l/100km the consumption goes to 13l/100km. Corbs whoever said or estimated 10% power loss is a bit short on truth. I won't give it 50% but I'd say............maybe 35% but it's vehicle dependent. Turbo? Put 50% for me then. You will probably save more money by detuning the turbo or removing it completely from your SR20's. This is my opinion at least. I drove a Golf Mk2, Audi 80, Passat Mk3-4, Lada all on LPG and although I liked it, those cars were run around which is the whole point of LPG. I don't use it anymore and now I drive on Methanol which is a bit dangerous as it doesn't smell and you don't know when your bottle is leaking. Don't worry this stuff is not available in UK. The device is different too. Oh yeah, last summer I managed 130km/h top speed in a 1.6 Golf Mk2 so that kinda speak for itself. And one more important thing to consider. You probably going to suggest 'what if I get the auto switch type, so I can change instantly inside the cabin?'. Well as BOLF already mentioned car must be tuned via ECU, so switching back to benzin some times can cause missfire, but even if it's running smooth the ECU is already mapped to run on LPG and performance is gone down the drain. p.s Niko if you going to ask me again where I got my facts from, I use this site so check it out: Yahoo! Answers - Home

08-07-2008, 12:46	#10 (permalink)
David Reid touge runner Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 170	Sorry but are you really trying to say a switch to LPG will give a 50% power drop on a turbo car?? How do you explain that? If you advanced the ignition to suit the new octain ratio I dont see why you could get back to the original power as the calorific value isn't far of 95 and it gives additional IAT cooling effect.

08-07-2008, 12:52	#11 (permalink)
DoriDave Unroadworthy Join Date: May 2006 Location: 2 miles from the Pod Posts: 1,146	Vauxhall championed an LPG Vectra in their one makes series, wasn't eligible for points but did very well indeed! The hotter the other cars got they lost power, cos the LPG ran cooler it seemed to go better than the Petrol based cars. All near-on identical cars too!

08-07-2008, 12:53	#12 (permalink)
Tony N gripper Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 10	I think the power loss from LPG is due to it displacing part of the intake charge as it changes back to gas during injection, therefore this effect would be reduced with forced induction as (obviously) the charge is compressed.

08-07-2008, 13:06	#13 (permalink)
Dogs Danglies Sick Puppy Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: High Wycombe Posts: 1,991	I thought LPG cars had higher exhaust gas temps? Not sure how true that is but its what I heard. I had a LPG e30 for a short while, ran fine for a run about, but the conversion looked a bit mickey mouse, so wasn't confident about drifting on it, think it was a single point injection, I wasn't too sure what the consequence of running a bit lean was so never bothered ragging it on gas. If I was to LPG my own car, I'd probably just buy a cheap motor on ebay thats already had a conversion then strip all the gubbins out and swap it all over, there are loads of Landy Discos etc on gas which sell for buttons.

08-07-2008, 13:30	#14 (permalink)
cr33ch tail slider Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 77	umm i think this is what they were on about on the sxoc SXOC Bulletin Board this only a link to it being for sale but im sure if u PM'ed the guy he'd be happy to tell u his experience with LPG. I feel its a great idea for the time being maybe buy one already with the conversion already fitted, but im sure its gonna start catching up with petrol in the not too distant future and will stop seeing any advantages doing the conversion yourself

08-07-2008, 14:04	#15 (permalink)
Daddy_D D1 street king Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,020	Fair enough if you setup the ECU to perform at it's best on a gas, but you should expect 15-16 liters per 100km. In perspective thats cars like Hummer, Land Rover etc that do 8 mile to the gallon. LPG is usually setup with economy in mind rather than performance otherwise the whole concept is lost. The Vauxhall race car on LPG sounds like the WTCC 320is 4 cylinder engines producing 280hp. It's some thing I can't achieve with a 10k in my bank.

08-07-2008, 16:43	#17 (permalink)
Jak Mighty Mini Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Winsford, Cheshire Posts: 353	My Dad's got a 1992 Discovery V8, which is on LPG, it has a pair of 35ltr tanks underneath, and he gets around 180 miles between fill ups. It has a switch inside where you can change between petrol and LPG, and its noticably quicker on petrol, but that said, we were going down the motorway the other day at a constant 85mph, with ease. You could always get it mapped to make it faster if you wanted. By the way it smells funny and the smell follows the car wherever it goes lol

08-07-2008, 17:47	#18 (permalink)
Bolf www.manfoot.in Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Home: Manchester / Work: All over the UK Posts: 1,762	If a car uses multi point lpg system and is mapped well , the same or better powers are possible. The guy above slating it sounds like he's only driven the old fashioned mixer type system's . The only adjustments are base idle and full load mixture. Wank I've mapped a Ford v8 pickup on a multi point injection system and GAINED 20% over factory figs on a rolling road.. Subaru wrx's respond well to lpg. No reason why sr20 wouldn't .

08-07-2008, 21:08	#20 (permalink)
suprmek1 Dori Mechanic Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Torquay Posts: 1,149	A well tuned LPG built the same as petrol system like bolf has said multi point inection and mapped fully will out do a petrol car any day of the weak as said earlier its equivilent to running a higher ron fuel. If your rebuilding ans SR to run 400bhp ie injectors ECU and re-map, its going to be only slightly more expensive to do it on LPG needing a fuel tank aswell. and i'd bet the lpg one would do better. It's something I plan to do anyway but not on an Sr