The wording of the Cage Regs... - Drifting forum

Jason · 12-02-2007, 16:32

Taken from the Regs...

"...All cages must have a main hoop from 45x2.5mm, 50x2mm tube. 38x2.5mm. 42x2mm is permissible for all other parts of the cage..."

now, im assuming that the full stop between "38x 2.5" and "42x2mm" is supposed to be a comma, meaning that 38x 2.5 AND 42x2mm is permissable for all other parts of the cage.

can someone comfirm this please?

robrs2 · 12-02-2007, 18:03

yep should be a comma. Pipe sizes are the same as the new MSA Blue book.

**SteveC200** · 12-02-2007, 18:24

Pretty sure its supposed to be...

"...All cages must have a main hoop from 45x2.5mm OR 50x2mm tube. 38x2.5mm OR 42x2mm is permissible for all other parts of the cage..."

MJG · 12-02-2007, 21:12

That's how I understood it Steve

scrutineer · 13-02-2007, 00:31

yesthat the way to read it.

missed that one when going through the regs for this year...

looks like I need to put that on the list for revisions for 2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC200

Pretty sure its supposed to be...

"...All cages must have a main hoop from 45x2.5mm OR 50x2mm tube. 38x2.5mm OR 42x2mm is permissible for all other parts of the cage..."

**SteveC200** · 13-02-2007, 08:05

A couple of other little mistakes while we're on the subject.

Quote:

4-9. All bodywork must be secure and attached to the vehicle. All bonnets and boot lids irrespective of being OEM, Carbon Fibre, FRP etc., must be held by a minimum of two bonnet pins. OEM Locks/Latches on the bonnets and boots must be disabled whilst the vehicle is competing and if not removed from the vehicle they must be secured safely.

4.9 mentions boot lids which I thought had been binned as per 4.5. Regulations Query

Quote:

4-5. All doors, bonnets and must be serviceable from the outside, all door handles and locking systems must be available from the exterior.

4.5 also doesnt read right. Should be All doors and the bonnet must be

superclarkey · 13-02-2007, 08:20

for the bonnet pins, can't you have an external pull cable for the stock latches ??

That would be safe and let people open the bonnet from the outside ?

Just the amount of bonnets i've seen fly off up smash roofs up because they have not been cliped down is funny... surly stock latchs offer better safty if rooted to the front grill say, so with a pull the bonnet unlatchs and can be opend.

?? would that pass ??

cptsideways · 13-02-2007, 09:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by superclarkey

for the bonnet pins, can't you have an external pull cable for the stock latches ??

That would be safe and let people open the bonnet from the outside ?

Just the amount of bonnets i've seen fly off up smash roofs up because they have not been cliped down is funny... surly stock latchs offer better safty if rooted to the front grill say, so with a pull the bonnet unlatchs and can be opend.

?? would that pass ??

That is a very sound point, at least oem catches are automatic & not forgetful

superclarkey · 13-02-2007, 11:19

Far as i see it, it would be a much safer option, and you don't have to hack your bonnets up ect, the safty latch is there for a reason..

IF the only reason is for someone to be able to gain excess to the bonnet from outside, then this is with in the rules yes ?

Matt_S · 13-02-2007, 16:07

The bonnet catch rule is one of my pet hates tbh.

superclarkey · 13-02-2007, 16:16

i've meet regs on rallys with this type of set up, and for the boot i've had a KEY IN THE BOOT on lock wire

superclarkey · 13-02-2007, 16:28

So does this mean as long as the cage is of that size and mounts 6 places in the car anything goes ?? or is there bit more too it ??

Can i follow the roof line to the rear self instead of droping strait down into the seating area ??

if braced properly this would also meet regs no ?

scrutineer · 14-02-2007, 01:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by superclarkey

for the bonnet pins, can't you have an external pull cable for the stock latches ??

That would be safe and let people open the bonnet from the outside ?

Just the amount of bonnets i've seen fly off up smash roofs up because they have not been cliped down is funny... surly stock latchs offer better safty if rooted to the front grill say, so with a pull the bonnet unlatchs and can be opend.

?? would that pass ??

to moan about bonnets pins not working when they are not fastened is a bit like complaining that your seatbelts wereuseless ..... when you forgot to put them on!

And of course OEM catches never fail do they?
and remote pull cables never fail either?

rules have been put in place on grounds of safety - if bonnet pins are correctly fitted and used and the bonnet and bodywork are in sound condition then its almost impossible for them to fail. The reason they are required is that we need a reliable method of getting the bonnet open in an emergency without fiddling around with interior releases etc As for cable releases on OEM catches , a cable may work when it is well installed and well maintained.... regularly lubricated etc but when the front end gets a bit bent,and the cables siezed..? Bonnet pins are a reliable method of keeping the bonnet closed and do not need constant maintenance.
So to answer the question no the car would not pass.

scrutineer · 14-02-2007, 01:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_S

The bonnet catch rule is one of my pet hates tbh.

when all the rest of the work has been done on a car to comply with the spec are a couple of holes in the bonnet really that tragic?
If we were talking cars running as unmodified production cars with no cages,etc then cutting holes may be undesireable but we are talking about purpose built drift cars built for top level competition........ or i hope we are

scrutineer · 14-02-2007, 01:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by superclarkey

So does this mean as long as the cage is of that size and mounts 6 places in the car anything goes ?? or is there bit more too it ??

Can i follow the roof line to the rear self instead of droping strait down into the seating area ??

if braced properly this would also meet regs no ?

Again , No it would not pass.it would probably not even go out for practice.

We tried to make the regs simpler and not to have a nanny state with dozens of drawings of what you must do - and must not do with a roll cage -assuming that yu would prefer to be able to use your own discression with designs
We could have used the MSA blue book spec - 50 drawings and four pages of text to tell you exactly what is allowed and exclude anything outside of that definition of a roll cage ..... but i dont think you would have liked it!

If that was a serious question I can post diagrams of the basic designs on here but as most msa/fia cages are built to a pretty standard design with extra bracing added on a look at most msa/fia spec cars will give a good idea.

MJG · 14-02-2007, 10:30

It can't hurt to post up some basic accepted designs

superclarkey · 14-02-2007, 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrutineer

Again , No it would not pass.it would probably not even go out for practice.

We tried to make the regs simpler and not to have a nanny state with dozens of drawings of what you must do - and must not do with a roll cage -assuming that yu would prefer to be able to use your own discression with designs
We could have used the MSA blue book spec - 50 drawings and four pages of text to tell you exactly what is allowed and exclude anything outside of that definition of a roll cage ..... but i dont think you would have liked it!

If that was a serious question I can post diagrams of the basic designs on here but as most msa/fia cages are built to a pretty standard design with extra bracing added on a look at most msa/fia spec cars will give a good idea.

yeah, i want to know what is allowed and not allowed...

this is my point the regs are there but they are very open at the moment.

I used to do alot of ralling (section K) of the blue book if i recall, and i've spent many lonly nights reading and checking back at that book

so i know were you are coming from.

I just want to know if i can extend from the main hoop backwards alont the headlining and then have drop down to the rear turrets ? with crossmebers of corse

you have to remember for most of use with skyline, its impossible to get more then 1 tyre in the boot and if you have a rollcage about 2in the back tops!

I would have to get a roof rack to bring anything along!

MJG · 14-02-2007, 11:46

Yup I'm going to be using a roof rack too dude hahaha, With fuel pumps in boot, a bulkhead seperating them, and a cage, I don't think I'm going to get more than about 5 wheels/tyres in there

scrutineer · 14-02-2007, 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by superclarkey

yeah, i want to know what is allowed and not allowed...

this is my point the regs are there but they are very open at the moment.

I used to do alot of ralling (section K) of the blue book if i recall, and i've spent many lonly nights reading and checking back at that book

so i know were you are coming from.

I just want to know if i can extend from the main hoop backwards alont the headlining and then have drop down to the rear turrets ? with crossmebers of corse

you have to remember for most of use with skyline, its impossible to get more then 1 tyre in the boot and if you have a rollcage about 2in the back tops!

I would have to get a roof rack to bring anything along!

Ahhh its starting to make more sense

this is the standard 6 point rollcagehttp://www.safetydevices.com/images/products/rollcages/step2_example-of-6-point-bo.gif

If i read it right, instead of the rear bars going down at 45 degrees to the rear arches you want it to be like a mirror image of the front section - following the roof line and dropping at a steeper angle so that it avoids the door opening? So you would still have six legs on the cage , just a different shape?

If you still have a copy of the blue book- like drawing Q4

If That is what you want - then yes that would be fine - maybe additional bracing on the rear section to keep it more rigid would be a good idea but that could be in the roof area and between the fet so it should give a good space for wheels etc
I will try to get some diagrams posted in here to illustrate

Marc

superclarkey · 14-02-2007, 15:46

I don't have a blue book anymore.. they have all been skipped sadly.

If i can do what you've said above i would be happy... this means i can leave the cage in the car and remove cross bracings when used for the road. I wish to retain all the interior you see.

Thanx for the advice

12-02-2007, 16:32	#1 (permalink)
Jason Onevia Vert Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: All over Kent Posts: 2,824	The wording of the Cage Regs... Taken from the Regs... "...All cages must have a main hoop from 45x2.5mm, 50x2mm tube. 38x2.5mm. 42x2mm is permissible for all other parts of the cage..." now, im assuming that the full stop between "38x 2.5" and "42x2mm" is supposed to be a comma, meaning that 38x 2.5 AND 42x2mm is permissable for all other parts of the cage. can someone comfirm this please?

13-02-2007, 08:20	#7 (permalink)
superclarkey ______________ Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 9,249	for the bonnet pins, can't you have an external pull cable for the stock latches ?? That would be safe and let people open the bonnet from the outside ? Just the amount of bonnets i've seen fly off up smash roofs up because they have not been cliped down is funny... surly stock latchs offer better safty if rooted to the front grill say, so with a pull the bonnet unlatchs and can be opend. ?? would that pass ?? Last edited by superclarkey : 13-02-2007 at 08:26.

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12-02-2007, 18:03	#2 (permalink)
robrs2 dorifto kingu! Join Date: May 2005 Location: Teesside Posts: 967	yep should be a comma. Pipe sizes are the same as the new MSA Blue book.

12-02-2007, 18:24	#3 (permalink)
SteveC200 talent bypass Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Essex Posts: 6,228	Pretty sure its supposed to be... "...All cages must have a main hoop from 45x2.5mm OR 50x2mm tube. 38x2.5mm OR 42x2mm is permissible for all other parts of the cage..."

12-02-2007, 21:12	#4 (permalink)
MJG e30 of Death Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Derby, England Posts: 11,950	That's how I understood it Steve

13-02-2007, 11:19	#9 (permalink)
superclarkey ______________ Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 9,249	Far as i see it, it would be a much safer option, and you don't have to hack your bonnets up ect, the safty latch is there for a reason.. IF the only reason is for someone to be able to gain excess to the bonnet from outside, then this is with in the rules yes ?

13-02-2007, 16:07	#10 (permalink)
Matt_S SELLIN' UP!!! Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NE Essex Posts: 4,273	The bonnet catch rule is one of my pet hates tbh.

13-02-2007, 16:16	#11 (permalink)
superclarkey ______________ Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 9,249	i've meet regs on rallys with this type of set up, and for the boot i've had a KEY IN THE BOOT on lock wire

13-02-2007, 16:28	#12 (permalink)
superclarkey ______________ Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 9,249	So does this mean as long as the cage is of that size and mounts 6 places in the car anything goes ?? or is there bit more too it ?? Can i follow the roof line to the rear self instead of droping strait down into the seating area ?? if braced properly this would also meet regs no ?

14-02-2007, 10:30	#16 (permalink)
MJG e30 of Death Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Derby, England Posts: 11,950	It can't hurt to post up some basic accepted designs

14-02-2007, 11:46	#18 (permalink)
MJG e30 of Death Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Derby, England Posts: 11,950	Yup I'm going to be using a roof rack too dude hahaha, With fuel pumps in boot, a bulkhead seperating them, and a cage, I don't think I'm going to get more than about 5 wheels/tyres in there

14-02-2007, 15:46	#20 (permalink)
superclarkey ______________ Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 9,249	I don't have a blue book anymore.. they have all been skipped sadly. If i can do what you've said above i would be happy... this means i can leave the cage in the car and remove cross bracings when used for the road. I wish to retain all the interior you see. Thanx for the advice