Should european cars be actively encouraged?

[driftpromotion]

Cost and availability are the driving factors.

Look at the developments in the US..the old traditions are being broken there already.

[Spoonman]

Yeah, but the BMW 3 series alone have cost and availability very much on their side in europe, and thats I think the main reason you CAN get parts for them, one of the few european driftable cars u can say that about.

[Stavros]

Simple fact for S+R bodies is adjustable suspension components are easy and cheap to get.

If it was as cheap to sort on a Sierra, BMW, Merc, etc etc, id have one instead of a S13 like i have got.

[Spoonman]

Problem is its never going to be cheap unless more people modify them, which opens up a market for companies to compete for customers by offering them better/cheaper upgrades. If something will sell, someone will make and sell it, its that simple.

[Alex B]

It may also have something to do with people liking a certain car, which is why they want to spend money on it, ie, choose a RWD car that you like and can afford and drift it. Some people like BMW's, some Skylines and some sx's.

Alex B

[Stavros]

Originally Posted by Spoonman

If something will sell, someone will make and sell it, its that simple.

Yeah magic, ill just buy the car I want, ask a company to do the R+D for the parts i need, and immediatley they will have it available and be able to sell it at the sweatshop prices you can buy S-body parts for these days.

[JacobPhoto]

This push needs to come from the manufacturers, not the sanctioning body. One way to do it is through contingency. I'm not sure if EDC or other European companies offer this, but basically companies 'buy' into a program to pay off drivers who use their product and win.

Here in the US, it's $100 or $200 on top of winning. With some companies, it can be $3000-$5000! Some companies pay out only the podium winners, others pay to top 8. Depends on the company and the sanctioning body.

That's why you see cars in drag racing and what not with 100 stickers. There was one racer I spoke with who won a championship one year in drag racing... he won something like $15,000 in event winnings (won 4 or 5 events), won $25,000 for winning the championship, and almost $40,000 in contingency earnings. His expenses were right around $50,000, so he made money that year (most drivers don't.)

Just an idea...

Originally Posted by driftpromotion

Cost and availability are the driving factors.

Look at the developments in the US..the old traditions are being broken there already.

Again, this came from the manufacturers. Subaru gave a car (from my understanding) to Steph Verdier this year. Mistubishi gave an Evo to Rich Rutherford after his work in the FF3 movie. Pontiac / Mopar gave cars to Rhys Millen / Sam Hubinette respectively. Mazda / Nissan / Ford and now this year Lexus have all given cars to drivers to increase their brand recognition.

In Japan, the manufacturers don't give cars to anybody!! Very different mentality...

[Spoonman]

Originally Posted by Stavros

Yeah magic, ill just buy the car I want, ask a company to do the R+D for the parts i need, and immediatley they will have it available and be able to sell it at the sweatshop prices you can buy S-body parts for these days.

Stop being so damned sarcastic. You know that if there was an entire market out there that wasnt being provided for someone WOULD decide to make money from it.

[Spoonman]

This will happen, over time, its gonna take a long time for drifting to be taken seriously by manufacturers here. But it doesnt have to be manufacturers, anyone who thinks they can benefit from plastering their company name accross the side could (with the right exposure to the EDC) buy a good driver a car to run in.

Originally Posted by JacobPhoto

This push needs to come from the manufacturers, not the sanctioning body. One way to do it is through contingency. I'm not sure if EDC or other European companies offer this, but basically companies 'buy' into a program to pay off drivers who use their product and win.

Here in the US, it's $100 or $200 on top of winning. With some companies, it can be $3000-$5000! Some companies pay out only the podium winners, others pay to top 8. Depends on the company and the sanctioning body.

That's why you see cars in drag racing and what not with 100 stickers. There was one racer I spoke with who won a championship one year in drag racing... he won something like $15,000 in event winnings (won 4 or 5 events), won $25,000 for winning the championship, and almost $40,000 in contingency earnings. His expenses were right around $50,000, so he made money that year (most drivers don't.)

Just an idea...



Again, this came from the manufacturers. Subaru gave a car (from my understanding) to Steph Verdier this year. Mistubishi gave an Evo to Rich Rutherford after his work in the FF3 movie. Pontiac / Mopar gave cars to Rhys Millen / Sam Hubinette respectively. Mazda / Nissan / Ford and now this year Lexus have all given cars to drivers to increase their brand recognition.

In Japan, the manufacturers don't give cars to anybody!! Very different mentality...

[Stavros]

Originally Posted by Spoonman

Stop being so damned sarcastic. You know that if there was an entire market out there that wasnt being provided for someone WOULD decide to make money from it.

But you seem to miss funamental point, which is why its been so easy to take the piss.

There is NOT a big market for it, so any R+D done will no doubt come out of the owners pocket.

[Spoonman]

There isnt a big market for it at the moment because not so many people drift, and even less people drift european cars. I think that will change, but how quickly that changes I dont know.

[Jeek™]

We have built my sierra to what i hope is EDC specs and i will find out at Knockhill this year!

Euro cars are coming through its just taking a while!

[mazdachris]

I don’t understand why people say that parts aren’t available for European cars. What parts do you mean? There are very few tuning parts which go into a drift car which are specific to drifting. The majority are simply adapted street and race tuning components. The only area I can think of where there is tuning bespoke for drifting would be parts which increase the steering angle and those parts are usually custom made anyway or bodged together from parts for various other cars. The tuning parts for European cars are no more expensive than for Japanese cars, in fact probably cheaper.

The reason, as far as I can see it, that people use cars like S-bodies etc, is because it’s a proven quantity. You know that once you fit X turbo kit, Y suspension, Z hovercraft kit, etc etc, you’re going to be at least on a similar level to most cars which are competing. You’re spending money on stuff you know is going to achieve the desired result, which cuts down costs and cuts down the work required.

There’s no doubting that a Merc or a BMW or whatnot could be turned into a perfectly decent, competitive drift car, but you’d be having to do the work yourself and spend the cash on developing the car. Finding the right damper settings, looking at which combination of parts is going to give best steering angle, etc. You’d be spending more money and you wouldn’t be sure that you could make it as good as a nicely sorted S body.

Drifting, really, is an amateur sport in Europe. There’s virtually no commercial interest, the drivers do it generally out of their own pockets and in their own spare time while holding down regular jobs. They’re not professional race drivers, they don’t get paid to do it. There’s no incentive whatsoever for spending money on buying and developing cars which are an unknown quantity.

[Spoonman]

Well on the parts issue, BMW LSD's from kaaz are £250 More than for a nissan, and you can only get a 1.5 way not a 2 way.

Im planning on buying a 325i E36 as my first drift car, reason being, theyre cheap, easy to find, and they do have a decent amount of upgrade parts available.

[Stavros]

Chris-

Ajustable suspension components is the only real issue i can see.

Easy and stupid cheap to buy on an S-body, 500notes these days can get you a half decent fully adjustable arm kit.

They ARE available for other cars, christ, there more adjustable race parts for BMWs and Sierras than almost any other motor.

BUT they have the motorsport cost too.

I can get RS500 Touring Car spec adjustable suspension components, hell, WRC Escort spec stuff, no problems at all, then the geometry is fully adjustable.

But it will cost WELL in to 4 figures for even the more basic stuff just to get it fully adjustable, esp the rear, even second hand.

[Nick]

to be honest i'm going to actively discourage european cars. i only like nissans, i am going to start an equally pointless thread about this on fuckbmw.com

[docwra]

Originally Posted by mazdachris

There’s no doubting that a Merc or a BMW or whatnot could be turned into a perfectly decent, competitive drift car, but you’d be having to do the work yourself and spend the cash on developing the car. Finding the right damper settings, looking at which combination of parts is going to give best steering angle, etc. You’d be spending more money and you wouldn’t be sure that you could make it as good as a nicely sorted S body.

I think you are right to some extent, but only for the pros - as an amateur drifter do I really care that much about steering angle and minute damping adjustment??
Even as a pro drifter do I want to be the first to sink my sponsors money into an unproven chassis and engine, before Ive even started getting one off bits manufactured??

Stavs comments about decent suspension availability for the price in the first place is where its at for me - I drifted an S12 to start with coz it cost me less than a BMW wheeltrim, and Im in an S13 now as all told with coilovers and a diff it cost less than any Merc with a decent amount of grunt. Id add that if I suddenly felt I needed another 100 bhp, it would cost me maybe £350, rather than a new engine with head and port work for the krautish options.

Having said all of this, a sorted Evo2 190 Merc would get the most coverage of anything out there IMO

[Bon Bon]

E36 has everything needed available at not far off the same prices, it's mainly the turbo = cheap power thing, I feel.

I fancy a new 335i turbo...

[docwra]

Originally Posted by Bon Bon

E36 has everything needed available at not far off the same prices, it's mainly the turbo = cheap power thing, I feel.

I fancy a new 335i turbo...

How much do you reckon your last M3 cost in total once it was specced up with bouncy bits, engine and diff Bon??

I reckon you can get a 320bhp S13 to similar level for a bit less than £2.5K

[Bon Bon]

Not THAT far off that to be honest dude and it was 10000000x times cooler than an S13. I think my original budget was 3k.