Right, 99% sure now that Ive worked out exactly what it does, and why it causes potentially quite dangerous effects in an engine. Will test this later, but this is my theory, so shoot it down before I bother testing it if you know better! As far as I can see, the way that it stops the ignition from firing, is simply that it grounds the coil, while the coil is grounded it doesnt fire, it only fires when the ground is removed. So when the cars ECU sends a pulse to the coil, its as that pulse ends that it fires, not as it starts. What the BEE*R does, is when you reach the RPM it wants to cut at, it sends long pulses to the ground side of the coil (or the CPS it would appear on multicoil applications) which effectively stop the coil working while those pulses are in operation, cutting out a % of the ignition cycles. The Yellow dial alters the frequency of that pulse width modulate signal, so swaps between several long cuts and lots of short cuts. So where does the problem arise that snaps rocker shafts and causes other engine problems then? Well at the end of the PWM signal from the BEE*R it causes the coil to fire, regardless of where the engine is in the cycle at time! So potentially this means that if the rotor arm just happens to be passing one cylinder's output on the dizzy still, it will fire that cylinder potentially far later or earlier in the cycle than the ignition timing of the engine would ever have done. So what this then does is it leads to a situation where you get detonation the same way that you would if your ignition was advanced (potentially FAR too much too not just a couple of degrees) Well, thats my theory anyway, and looking at which wires the BEE*R connects to I really dont see how it can be anything else TBH Will test it first chance I get just to make sure Im correct, but im very confident that I am!
Annonying thing is, I now know what BEE*R should have done differently, and how to make one that does all the cool things the BEE*R does, but without this problem, annoyingly though, ive not got the time/resources for that!
im rubbish with electrics- is that all relevant when 99% of the cars that use it, Skylines and 200SX's, use coil on plug ignition rather than a dizzy and coil? ive no fucking clue, genuine question.
Doesnt make any difference if its coil on plug or distributor, they still work the same way, the collapsing of the circuit on the primary coil causes the secondary coil to fire.
youve lost me, lol. even the fact SX's and Skylines run cam angle and not phase sensors and crank sensors like im used to confuses me
Interesting stuff. A while back I am sure people were ripping them apart to make cheaper copies on here but dont think anything came of it. If you can figure out the problem with the Bee*R limiter and make something similar there is surely money to be made.
All you need to do is put a wait on the PWM signal so it only cuts whole cycles, so you only ever start the event as a spark happens and you only ever end it as a spark happens, then the problems would all be solved.
Well I am in for a tenner for 10%.The Apprentice style! Seriously though frick knows how many of these limiters Bee*R sell every year and they must be making serious ££ for very little outlay. If better version can be developed and produced cheaply somebodys going to make good money.
Can't you just make something that cuts the spark all together until rpm drops below xxxxrpm? Or would that be too severe?
well barring this bee-r one, all ign cut rev limiters ive ever seen, standard or not (205GTI, Cossie, etc etc) just do that, they cut the spark rather than move it somewhere like this one seems to do
They do exactly the same as the BeeR one acutally, both cut the spark and both then reintroduce it randomly when they come back on, the BeeR one just does it repeatedly in very quick succession rather than the normal harsher in one go. Ie the normal one will cause one rogue spark event every couple of seconds, rather than potentially many events in one second.
I'm probably not understanding this anywhere near what you clever bastards do but wouldn't you start to get non-atomised fuel in the bore if you were cutting the spark for many cycles? wet plugs, and all that fun stuff? Seems seriously dodgy to me if the BeeR one is sparking at random times during the cycle. That can't be healthy at all? I wouldn't expect anything from a reputable company to do something like that?? again maybe I should stick to just thrashing cars and not fucking with them!
Chip i see what you mean. I was wanting something for my 24V to reduce the standard factory revlimiter which is a fuel cut at 6300rpm, not good for forced induction. I did think of fitting a limiter to the 12v+ side of the coil pack. this would have needed a fast switch coil driver. Any ideas ??
Only idea I can suggest mate to totally avoid this issue with an unwanted spark appearing, is use a fuel cut limiter instead, lol Sadly anything you do to collapse the primary side of the coil (ie either hold and release the -VE or do the +VE cut) is going to cause an unwanted spark event. Although ive actually realised this evening while on my way back from a bird im seeing at the moment, that there is a significant difference in which side you effect on the coil, or more specifically how you effect it if dealing with the -VE Basically, you have 2 ways of stopping the spark: 1) Cut the -VE wire (with a relay) or cut the +VE wire (with a relay) 2) Ground the -VE wire What I missed earlier when I was thinking about this, is the difference in timing of when you get an event that the two different methods can cause. BOTH can cause a spark event at ANY point in the cycle, so both can cause a spark during the inlet cycle or an advanced spark happening later in the compression cycle, HOWEVER, that potentially damaging late spark wont matter if you do a cut rather than a ground, as it will BY DEFINITION happen AFTER the engine has already fired during that cycle anyway, and a spark going off once the flame front is already travelling is totally irrelevant, so it cant lead to detonation! Could still potentially cause an inlet backfire, but they are pretty uncommon anyway and not particuarly damaging normally, but thats not really the big issue. So I think if you go with your idea on cutting either the +VE or -VE you will get far less of an issue
Yes mate, thats exactly what you will get, but only ever for a few cylces at a time because of the way it rapidly cuts in and out, so no big deal on that sideof things really. Its NOT healthy, hence the issues that people get with them I guess mate! Shame as in principle a spark cut is SO much better than a fuel cut IMHO (mainly for nitrous use)
I tested one today on my nova, it works exactly how I said it would, just to report back for those interested.
So they a bad idea to use full stop then, or? I really dont trust the factory fuel cut limiter on my car, esp as its been chipped and in japan that usually means some fucking insane 9500rpm rev limit on RB26s
If you are even slightly nervous about the strength of any components, then I would advice not using one personally based on what Ive learnt. In this instance, unusually, I believe the "internet rumours" about its harm to be quite well founded now (different story to what I was saying a few days ago I must confess!) I believe it may be possible to remedy this with a relay to turn off the -VE pin rather than ground it, which could only introduce excessive retard and never excessive advance, i will give that a go at some point, but I suspect at the very least it will make the operation of the device enough slower to be not as cool sounding anymore!
