Why run a staggered size? - Drifting forum

pizzaboy · 03-07-2008, 12:56

Why do RWD cars from factory have a narrow front tyre width and wider rear width? Is it not better to run the fronts as wide as the back as most folks do when they start modifying from the original spec?

Anyone know why RWD cars come from the factory staggered like this?

Stavros · 03-07-2008, 12:58

Looks, wheel clearance, nice safe understeer.

LiGhTnInG · 03-07-2008, 12:59

More grip at the back

m.d. · 03-07-2008, 13:53

more grip on the driven wheels thats all. if you notice, the more power from factory, generally the wider the rear wheel,

check out a rear wheel on a viper for instance

pizzaboy · 03-07-2008, 13:54

A silly but well to do mate of mine kept nagging at me for running 225s all round as apparently "staggered is correct from factory for RWD, they know better". I replied it's probably because they dial in understeer deliberately and it saves them tyre costs as the front wheels have no driven power, I wasn't ever told this it just sounded logical to me. Just wanted to double check so I can bitchslap him next time

.

m.d. · 03-07-2008, 13:59

your dead right, as starvos said, factory cars are made to be safe for the genral public, and understeer is safer than oversteer for an inexperienced driver,

tried this with my ex misses, she drove her car round a corner and put her foot down and got it understeering, she just lauged and carried on,
then she did it in mine and it kicked out a little and she near on burst into tears cos she thought she was going to die lol.

Mad Cas · 03-07-2008, 14:00

Its a good way of easily tuning grip levels, some cars (a lot of toyotas) have a narrower track at the rear too.

Narrower tyres on the front give you more steering feedback.

Some cars (especially MR stuff like MR2 or Elise/Exige) handle a lot better with the same tyre type and size all round, and staggering it makes them twitchy(er)

For general stuff I like running the same all round for balance and predictability, although ultimately its down to driver preference and it varies depending on the type of car (light/chassis) what has been done to the suspension and how its been set up etc.

Jord · 03-07-2008, 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by m.d.

she did it in mine and it kicked out a little and she near on burst into tears cos she thought she was going to die lol.

I'd cry if I was driving with 245s on a 7.5J too! Thats upsetting shit.

kam · 03-07-2008, 14:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jord

I'd cry if I was driving with 245s on a 7.5J too! Thats upsetting shit.

Lmao!

Pulsatingstar · 03-07-2008, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mad Cas

Some cars (especially MR stuff like MR2 or Elise/Exige) handle a lot better with the same tyre type and size all round, and staggering it makes them twitchy(er)

I dont think any Elises come with the same size tyres and I dont think anyone changes them to be either. S1 Elises are 15inch front 16 inch rear with a narrower front tyre (dont know sizes). S2 an inch bigger diameter respectively. The VX220 got 17s allround cause Vauxhall prefered the look and wanted to cheapskate it. Its considered better to go back to the Lotus setup on aftermarket wheels.

ham fisted crash chimp · 03-07-2008, 14:25

my boxster (I know ghey

) is MR and has staggered tyres and believe me she is far from twichy, no understeer either just plenty of grip then oversteer!! (205 front 255 rear)

pizzaboy · 03-07-2008, 15:57

It seems on FR cars it's better to run equal size all round but on MR/RR it's heavily recommended to run staggered sizes. Having owned 2 MR cars myself (MR2 and an Elise) I noticed everyone was running a staggered setup when viewing their setups. In fact Lotus owners very very rarely change from the stock wheels/tyre sizes. On MR cars the alloys on these vehicles are themselves narrower at the front and wider at the rear.
Seems to be more acceptable and proven on FR cars to be benificial when running equal size tyres all round. I can only see it as being related to the difference in weight distribution due to engine location.

hashiriya · 03-07-2008, 16:12

Bringing this into a slightly drifty context...

Have you noticed that most drift silvias in Japan run a 18" wheel setup rear and 17" front? also the width is considerablly different. I had thought it's down to the level of grip offered on the rear with the big wide tyres is about equal to the fronts on smaller narrower ones meaning it could slide all 4 wheels in a balanced fashion... any thoughts on this?

In the reverse situation, A lot of Japanese tuners stick slightly wider 16" wheels on the front and narrower 15" wheels on the back of Civics. I can understand this one as to drive FF fast you want the back to pretty much just come along for the ride and is fastest when slightly loose.

matt · 03-07-2008, 16:20

afaik the 17" front wheels is for clearance, and in the case of S13/180's appearance too. they always look stupid high on 18's at the front for some reason?

Daddy_D · 03-07-2008, 17:48

Has anyone ever ran wider tyres at the front in favour of the rear? I run 195 all around and I got used to this setup. With the new rear arms I can set it now to 0 camber at the back so no longer need to change setting with tyres and wheel size only.
I always had the impression that even you reduce the rear width, wider tyres at front will still make it understeer with sudden snappy oversteer.

pizzaboy · 03-07-2008, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by hashiriya

In the reverse situation, A lot of Japanese tuners stick slightly wider 16" wheels on the front and narrower 15" wheels on the back of Civics. I can understand this one as to drive FF fast you want the back to pretty much just come along for the ride and is fastest when slightly loose.

It would be interesting to see whether the BTCC FF touring cars run such a setup seeing as they are driving some pretty fast Civic Type R's in the series.

m.d. · 03-07-2008, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jord

I'd cry if I was driving with 245s on a 7.5J too! Thats upsetting shit.

my car is built to handle. not look like everyone elses

and castle coombe proved that too.

03-07-2008, 12:56	#1 (permalink)
pizzaboy splendiferous Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Glasgow Posts: 1,088	Why run a staggered size? Why do RWD cars from factory have a narrow front tyre width and wider rear width? Is it not better to run the fronts as wide as the back as most folks do when they start modifying from the original spec? Anyone know why RWD cars come from the factory staggered like this?

03-07-2008, 13:54	#5 (permalink)
pizzaboy splendiferous Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Glasgow Posts: 1,088	A silly but well to do mate of mine kept nagging at me for running 225s all round as apparently "staggered is correct from factory for RWD, they know better". I replied it's probably because they dial in understeer deliberately and it saves them tyre costs as the front wheels have no driven power, I wasn't ever told this it just sounded logical to me. Just wanted to double check so I can bitchslap him next time.

03-07-2008, 14:25	#11 (permalink)
ham fisted crash chimp tail slider Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 120	my boxster (I know ghey) is MR and has staggered tyres and believe me she is far from twichy, no understeer either just plenty of grip then oversteer!! (205 front 255 rear)

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03-07-2008, 12:58	#2 (permalink)
Stavros DEYTUKURJURBS Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cheltenham, Gloucestershire Posts: 9,542	Looks, wheel clearance, nice safe understeer.

03-07-2008, 12:59	#3 (permalink)
LiGhTnInG Doricomotion Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: BANNED :p :p Posts: 7,692	More grip at the back

03-07-2008, 13:53	#4 (permalink)
m.d. tail slider Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 94	more grip on the driven wheels thats all. if you notice, the more power from factory, generally the wider the rear wheel, check out a rear wheel on a viper for instance

03-07-2008, 13:59	#6 (permalink)
m.d. tail slider Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 94	your dead right, as starvos said, factory cars are made to be safe for the genral public, and understeer is safer than oversteer for an inexperienced driver, tried this with my ex misses, she drove her car round a corner and put her foot down and got it understeering, she just lauged and carried on, then she did it in mine and it kicked out a little and she near on burst into tears cos she thought she was going to die lol.

03-07-2008, 14:00	#7 (permalink)
Mad Cas Libertine Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Bat Country Posts: 5,334	Its a good way of easily tuning grip levels, some cars (a lot of toyotas) have a narrower track at the rear too. Narrower tyres on the front give you more steering feedback. Some cars (especially MR stuff like MR2 or Elise/Exige) handle a lot better with the same tyre type and size all round, and staggering it makes them twitchy(er) For general stuff I like running the same all round for balance and predictability, although ultimately its down to driver preference and it varies depending on the type of car (light/chassis) what has been done to the suspension and how its been set up etc.

03-07-2008, 15:57	#12 (permalink)
pizzaboy splendiferous Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Glasgow Posts: 1,088	It seems on FR cars it's better to run equal size all round but on MR/RR it's heavily recommended to run staggered sizes. Having owned 2 MR cars myself (MR2 and an Elise) I noticed everyone was running a staggered setup when viewing their setups. In fact Lotus owners very very rarely change from the stock wheels/tyre sizes. On MR cars the alloys on these vehicles are themselves narrower at the front and wider at the rear. Seems to be more acceptable and proven on FR cars to be benificial when running equal size tyres all round. I can only see it as being related to the difference in weight distribution due to engine location.

03-07-2008, 16:12	#13 (permalink)
hashiriya EDC実況 Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Mildenhall, Suffolk Posts: 2,410	Bringing this into a slightly drifty context... Have you noticed that most drift silvias in Japan run a 18" wheel setup rear and 17" front? also the width is considerablly different. I had thought it's down to the level of grip offered on the rear with the big wide tyres is about equal to the fronts on smaller narrower ones meaning it could slide all 4 wheels in a balanced fashion... any thoughts on this? In the reverse situation, A lot of Japanese tuners stick slightly wider 16" wheels on the front and narrower 15" wheels on the back of Civics. I can understand this one as to drive FF fast you want the back to pretty much just come along for the ride and is fastest when slightly loose.

03-07-2008, 16:20	#14 (permalink)
matt -NIGHTSPIRIT FAMILY- Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2,838	afaik the 17" front wheels is for clearance, and in the case of S13/180's appearance too. they always look stupid high on 18's at the front for some reason?

03-07-2008, 17:48	#15 (permalink)
Daddy_D D1 street king Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,018	Has anyone ever ran wider tyres at the front in favour of the rear? I run 195 all around and I got used to this setup. With the new rear arms I can set it now to 0 camber at the back so no longer need to change setting with tyres and wheel size only. I always had the impression that even you reduce the rear width, wider tyres at front will still make it understeer with sudden snappy oversteer.