Thought I'd add to this thread as its a situatuion which does need improving on, if both drivers and spectators are gonna have an awesome time. Personally I have to agree with John that individual qualifying runs are crap. There boring for the drivers, boring to watch and much more difficult to judge than twinning. So in an ideal world I'd kick it off with twinning from the start. However we all know having 64 cars at every event is very unlikely so I think there should be a fair way of getting it down to 32. In my opinion the only way to do this without being unfair is to go with the results from the previous round. This way it takes no extra time qualifying and results in more seat time for the drivers and a quicker, fairer way of getting straight into battles. Which is what everyone wants, both drivers and spectators. I think although the 1st vs 16th, 2nd vs 15th way means the driving standard should improve as the competition goes on, really it makes no odds whether your 3rd or 12th. This is why in my opinion it would be a much better idea to pull names from a hat and start twinning rather than qualifying. To get it down to the 32 I would propose to: If at round 2 for example there were 55 entrants, we would have to get rid of 23 drivers to get it down to the top 32 battles. The top 8 drivers from the previous round would be removed from the hat, and seeded into the top 32 so they can't face each other until the top 8. If they get through! This would then leave 47 drivers. We would then do 23 battles from the hat to get rid of 23 people. Leaving 1 name in the hat to automatically go through as a wildcard into the top 32. This way you can use the comp to gain an advantage for the next round and every driver who enters will do some twinning. There should also be decent battles to watch as the top 8 drivers won't face each other very early on.
Running 23 battles as qualifiers for the top 32 is very time consuming, but any other comp with 55 drivers would also be very time consuming! So your method is a) seeding top drivers from previous round and b) basically running an odd-number top 64? Sounds decent to me.
No difference? It makes a HUGE difference. Besides the structure being designed so that the event ends with the two best drivers / qualifiers bringing at event to a climax, it also allows drivers an opportunity to show their sponsors that they can get results, even if they are knocked out early or drop out due to mechanical failures. You are all trying to re-invent the wheel, with some of the most experienced drivers and judges in the country telling you "it does not work" it seem you all want to carry on regardless. All this sort of thing has been attempted previously, all the way back to 2002, that's just in this country... Also, straight into twinning? Now I may be a little out of the loop here, but are you guys all pretty much suggesting that you don't need practice sessions? Practice groups with qualifying is the only way to build the excitement into the events throughout the day whilst maintaining a fair system that offers drivers rewards for their solo and battle performances. It's difficult enough to please sponsors without taking more bragging rights away from them. Qualifying IS for the drivers, not spectators. If it's a problem, open the event to the public later in the day, do not sell yourselves short simply to increase "crowd appeal" (read as ticket sales) for the organisers.
ticket sales (should) offset drivers costs and the cost of running the competition. therefore keeping the customer ( spectator ) happy should be a principal consideration. having a draw system for the top X competitors after a few hours of open practice which can encourage drivers to push hard without the fear of instant failure ( non qualifying ) could actually work as a draw to the earlier hours of competitions rather than a turn off ( see docwra's comment about being lazy and not turning up til he knows battles are due to start now imagine a non hardcore drift enthusiast being put off by a few hours of tedium and not coming back or being inspired to take up the sport because he/she has just watched 3 or 4 hours of "boring" qualification. if i think back to one of the best events i've ever attended as a spectator it was the d1gp exhibition match at silverstone where dmac ruled the roost with his sr86 against some of the top d1 guys. the whole brdc stand was stomping and cheering and i know people took up the sport just based o the back of being at that event. Surely if the sport is to grow organisers need to find a way of getting new blood into the crowd, keep the existing crowd happy and give the drivers maximum enjoyment?? p.s. for the sake of politics this comment is not directed at anyone or any series in particular just some late evening ramblings :
So you are saying that the top 16 drivers that went through regular qualification to earn their place in that top 16 put on the best show... funny that! The way to not bore spectators is more to do with event logistics and drivers being ready well in advance of when they need to go. The problem is getting non-professionals to act in a professional manner, when they are just trying to have fun. The D1 drivers realise they have to work together as professionals to make it work, a concept that still hasn't properly sunk in here I'm sad to say. But then why would it? What I'm saying is, event staff and organisers need to work even harder to make a brilliant show. I've sat and watched D1 in Odiba, it was brilliant, even qualifying, because the commentating was on it, the drivers came at very regular intervals and kept the action going. If somebody crashed, out came k-cars doing silly skids and wheelies... serious planning!
no what i'm saying is that the knockout section of the day was highly involved and engrossing. the standard of driving in the quali's was awesome ( infact i seem to remember the greddy s15 doing some mega entries ) but as we all know it's just not the same. however I also 100% agree with the rest of what you said but given the size of the current BDC day for example it must be a logistical nightmare for them which requires 10000000% co-operation from all drivers which i'm sure can be a challenge in itself ( last minute fixes , wheel changes , etc etc) so a bit more thought has to be put into that side of things. infact i remember a driver being excluded from an event for missing a practice or briefing session. maybe organisers need to get tougher?? again, for the sake of politics , I used BDC as an example as they have the biggest roster over 3 classes and am not slating them or any other series ( how sad is it that i feel the need to put this here )
It should only be the same apart from one more times. I did think it was a little long winded but it would get everyone excited for the top 32. Mitto I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, just responding with a possible idea on how we can make the comps more exciting the watch and drive in, you must agree twinning is more fun than solo runs. This isn't just for crowd appeal, most of the drivers I have spoken to said they would prefer to go straight into battles after practise. Also with the top drivers beeing seeded through it would usually end with the best battles. I'm not for one minute sugesting we don't need a practise session, of course there will be practise sessions. Just not individual qualifying runs for the comp.
I have judged LOADS of drift events, and have been threatened, pushed around, had a 'driver''s mates try and threaten me to overturn my decision, even had drivers themselves come up to me and threaten me because they believed the judged call was wrong. Thick skin needed. I have never questioned a judges calling in any of my own battles because I know what they are up against. The ruling is the ruling. It's only a bit of fun in a car.
Ah man, disagree. You have time for people after you have done your judging to let them know where they let themselves down and where they can improve. Makings of a good judge! Edit: And here's my take on the whole thread. Why not run qualifying with two drivers on the same track running in opposite directions, with each driver being told whether he is high-line or low-line. It's a bit mad max, but it adds enjoyment for the crowd, and who here, as a driver hasn't had to drift round a stationary car who has spun in front of you? We all have avoidance techniques, the yellow flag is just notification that some muppet needs the wanker sign as you drift one-handed past his sorry-ass. We can all put the car where it needs to be on the track, otherwise we wouldn't be at a level to call it competition. Lets raise the game and tell the H&S people where they can shove their shit. edit: and lets be honest, after the initial run up and initiation, drifting speed rarely gets over 20-30 mph. I can go faster than that on a push bike down a hill. Oh, and if everyone is bored with Grindrod winning Buxton and Wheels every day of the week, why not invite some drivers up for some events where this legend of a man can actually test his metal against them. I've seen him drive, and the man can hang off the wall of any banger track you throw at him. Legend. Only trouble he has, is when you throw some tricky adjustments at him, like the ODC final etc. Will be different seeing him next season.
Drivers think Buxton is below them, and even when they compete (like perry's mates) they think we're wrong if Grindrod beats them. We'd love more drivers to come up and enjoy themselves but apparently its easy and "just a banger track" Anyway Grindrod did get beaten a few times last year, he's not invincible just bloody good. If I was competing I'd see it as a huge challenge and if I finally did beat someone that good it'd be a HUGE satisfaction. As for contra-flow qualifying, I think it'd work for a good demo but not really in the spirit of drifting as it makes it more of a stunt show. Drifting is about more than that. It would be exciting though and maybe we'll try it at the next Buxton to see how it looks haha.
My thing with qualifying for a top 16 or top 32 is that the top qualifiers get the easiest ride to the final. I don't get your argument that that is fair Mitto.
^^^ True dat From a drivers point of view I wouldn't care less if the twinning names were drawn out of a hat and weren't the usual 1st vs 16th etc. It would prob make it more exciting and if anything makes the stronger drivers have to push earlier should they come up against a stronger apponent. From a crowd point of view, non stop twinning would be awesome to watch.... do it
Sounds like Mr Grindrod should be trying his hand in another championship if he's that good to be TQ every time The system of 1 vs 16 and 2 vs 15 etc to get the best two drivers in the final needs to remain. The finals should reach a crescendo with the top drivers showing the best as the highlight of any event. If you think people get bored now, wait till the semi finals and finals have a clear winner every time with no excitement or close driving. If your D1 event that Kieron mentioned was at a whole new level, however if I remember rightly qualifying was done on the Saturday so when the gates were open for joe public on Sunday it was open practice followed by battles? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. But then you have to remember that the driver standard at the time was fantastic and so was the standard of car presentation, something that needs to be addressed if your showing drifting to the public.
It is just par for the course. This kind of behaviour has been prevalent since I was running bullshit practice days 6 years ago. Thick skin is a judges best asset. It was only three or four years ago at Lousada where they were struggling to find judges because the previous year the drivers/mates/crowd tried to mob them lol
A crescendo would be doable if the top 8 or 16 drivers were seeded from the previous round, but still allows battles and changes across the season to prevent the same old battles. Grindrod will be going up in the competition world don't worry Sweeps. He's just waiting to finish his car You'll see him soon enough
