Hi, i have decided to create this post apart of the "S CHASSIS Alignments" post because i will post some pictures and try to solve my personal and shity alignment at the Front of car. I take full responsibility for it state Some info on the car S14 with; DW Front Lower Arms DW Geomasters Tension Rods DW Geomasters Tie Rods DW Offset Rack Spacers Now the alignment values, because i'm from Portugal here for some reason the alignment machines instead of measuring for example (1'30'') they measure (1º30') :S So my target alignment values were the "MINIMAL STREET / DRIFT USE" from the great MITTO; 32PSi front 40Psi rear FRONT camber 2'50'' castor 7'30'' toe 0'05'' OUT -> per wheel so the total 0'10'' for know lets forget the Rear. with all that parts in the car after alignment i have; FRONT camber -3º04' caster 7º33' toe -0º05' --> per Wheel i have to be honest i'm not 100% sure the conversion values are even close to the values of MITTO setup. To get this alignment street normal and because after install the parts i add alot of TOE IN i add to cut of on the "DW Geomasters Tie Rods" and also the "Tie Rod End" !!! With all of this parts and alignment at full lock my steering wheel gets locked! and some times i need to stop the drift to recover it! I need help to find were I messed up! I don't have here an expert workshop to go to, so i'm trying the best by my self to tell the alignment technician what to do, and it looks like i messing things up! The result... Ideas? Thks. Vox
1°10" = 1 degree 10 minutes 1'10" = 1 degree 10 minutes nothing wrong here. overcentre = the tie rod from the rack and the steering arm from the hub are going past the point where they are in a straight line. Put your car on full lock and have a look and you'll eventualy see. possible fix: Lower ball joint, outer track rod end and inner track rod joint Thats my 2c, no real "self" experience here because it never happend to me!
Hi Clonehunter, thks for the reply. Regarding: "1°10" = 1 degree 10 minutes 1'10" = 1 degree 10 minutes nothing wrong here." On the machine it's 1º10' and not 1º10''. Dont know if it makes a diference? "overcenter", i'm going to check that, but if i'm using the "DW Offset Rack Spacers" this should happen, i think... ?
Not sure but maybe you need cut knuckles (or Geomasters) as you have effectively moved the rack forward and not shortened the knuckles to compensate?
Hi sparky_s13, thks for the reply, i'm trying to understand this... i don't want this, but if i reduce on the castor i would stop having this problem? shouldn't the rack spacers solve the overcenter? :S
Ok, conversion is pretty out of whack. Degrees are degrees and always show as such. So the first number you look at should always be the same: 1° = 1° It only makes a difference as you break down the degree into smaller chunks. Decimals of a degree are easy, but i will use fractions to help: 1.5° = 1 and a half degree Minutes and seconds break a degree into 1/60ths and each minute has 60 seconds. Like a clock. So where this gets a little confusing is 1.5° = 1 and a half degree 1° 30' = 1 and a half degree 1° 20' = 1 and a third Seconds you probably wouldnt need to worry about as that is 1/60 of a minute so 360" in 1°.
So, some confusion has come from your notation used on Mittos settings, his all seem to be in decimals of degrees (Stolen from an old Mitto comment) front camber 2.50°, castor 8.00°, toe 0.00° rear camber 1.10°, toe 0.00° So to convert this to minutes and seconds you get: front camber 2°30', castor 8°, toe 0° rear camber 1°6', toe 0.0° Hope this helps
hi MaccyD, thks for the reply, know you get me more confused... :S on the topic "S CHASSIS Alignments" from MITTO the first post the values are (copy&past from it) " MINIMAL STREET / DRIFT USE FRONT camber 2'50" castor 7'30" toe 0'05" OUT REAR camber 1'10" toe 0'10" IN " At the begin of the post MITTO states "Measurements are in degrees' and minutes" (not . of a degree!) For example - 1'30" is ONE DEGREE AND 30 MINUTES, NOT one point three degrees." but the machine i go to alignment has them in 1º20' and not in 1'20'' And is based on this that i have been working my alignment. FRONT camber -3º04' caster 7º33' toe -0º05' --> per Wheel I'm doing a wrong convertion of MITTO's values? And can this be the reason for me to get "overcenter" ?
Yes. His notation is also wrong 1 degree = 1° 1 minute = 1' 1 second = 1" I think your machine is the same and you are over thinking the notation. His first should say 2°50' Which is equivalent to the decimal 2.83° If it was actually 2'50" then as a decimal it would be 0.034°
So, let's get this done. Swap every ' for a °, and every " for a '. No idea how you made those conversions lol
MaccyD, thank you for clarifying that to me!!! Much appreciated! Now i only need to solve the locking of the steering wheel at full lock... :S Any ideas?
Hi NikH, thks for the reply. But that way i will lose the lock i get from adding the DW arms and stuff... I get the idea that adding all that would get me more lock without the overcenter problems... ?!?!?! What should i do to now lose the lock i have?
As already mentioned you won't get the full benefit from the offset rack spacer with standard knuckles, all you are really gaining is the extra travel in the rack which may be gaining you say an extra 5-10degrees but if you had modded/geo knuckles you would have 15/20degrees (or poss more) by this point. You are also correct with less castor the steering will overcentre later / at a further out lock. The angle of your arms do look a bit weird with the standard knuckles poss due to the amount of castor you have.... If you want to use the standard knuckles you could use just the geo inner rack ends and the spacer fitted gives you some more lock which then stops when it hits the rack. With the offset rack spacers you are gaining even more travel into the rack so you ideally want modded knuckles of some kind and then you will have a lot of lock and you can fit a bump stop just before it over centres. Good luck!
