CA18DET forging..

Thread in 'Technical' started by niksa.barisic, Oct 4, 2017.

  1. niksa.barisic

    niksa.barisic New Member

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    Hello guys, i'm sorry for asking theese common questions and i i know there are almost everywhere on the net.... but i kinda think i will get the best answers here with my own thread.

    Ok... questions...

    i've just sent my 200sx s13 to a body shop and i will be without it for bout 2months approx...

    in that time i have to order all parts to forge my engine...

    the goal is set to about atleast 300whp... so if anyone has any experience with ca18det (dont tell me swap sr20det etc please.... )

    the pistons, rods,crank bearings, headwork? supertech etc? , turbo, injectors, etc....

    umm and ECU, do i need standalone for that kinda goal or?

    please help me so i can start ordering finally :)

    greetings from Croatia
     
  2. BenRice

    BenRice Well-Known Member

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    300 wheel is pushing the limits of the biggest factory bolt on T2 turbo's (S15 / GTi-R T28) and availability of good condition units is getting low, so you'd need to look at something new. An HX27 or HX30 Holset would be ideal on the CA, but check what's available on http://www.compressorracing.com/our-turbos.html

    As for ECU, Nistune type 1 board + R35 or Z32 afm would be the way to go. There's a Nistune dealer in Croatia too: https://nistune.com/workshops/europe/croatia

    As for internals, I'll let someone else cover that. CA's can run 250hp on stock internals fine, but bumping to 300+ will need at the least stronger rods, steel headgasket and depending on what fuel you go for, forged pistons. If ethanol blends are readily available the lower heating value it has helps with reducing combustion chamber failure.

    But make sure you've got a decent clutch lined up, definitely a puck clutch. Twin plate won't be needed.
     
  3. pointz

    pointz Member

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    Can run 300bhp on a gt2560r (t28r) all day

    Garrett gt2871r will easily cope with 350+

    Also been running 290ish bhp on stock internals for years.
    Youd need forged pistons before rods.


    Id go with cp pistons, rods alot of them come from the same place and are just rebranded anyway
     
  4. BenRice

    BenRice Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't get much more than 300hp / ~1.2bar out of a 2560 on a CA, and he said at least 300

    The 2871 and the HX30 seem to butt heads often, but the HX30 seems to offer the same amount of flow up top with a whole lot less lag on smaller capacity engines. And comes in a lot cheaper too. I say that despite running a 2871 / GT-RS #buyersremorse

    Good to know about pistons tho. Have seen ~320whp on a GT28R but with CP pistons & rods, and take a beating for a number of years before the main bearings finally gave up the ghost
     
  5. pointz

    pointz Member

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    Yea for sure i wouldnt wanna run more than 300 on a 2560r.

    There are quite a few holsets that are good for his targets tho!
     
  6. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    OP said he wanted 300 at the wheels, so at least 350 at the crank if not abit more.
    T28R will do 300 at the crank but thats it, a GT2871R or similar would do 300 at the wheels.

    Stock engine can manage that power, but at least replace the bearings. Can forge it if you want, if you wanna spend the money.
    Stock manifold would probably manage it as well with abit of light porting.

    Everything depends on your budget really.
     
  7. BenRice

    BenRice Well-Known Member

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    And what state the motor is currently in

    If it's in pieces then a little bit of future proofing is a good idea (but don't get carried away)

    If it's in one piece and has good compression and no signs of bearing wear then i'd be tempted to run it as is and build a 2nd block on the side
     
  8. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    CA's always have some kind of bearing wear.

    Especially over here where every engine has been treated like total shit.
     
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  9. niksa.barisic

    niksa.barisic New Member

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    i have like a zillion friends tellin me to go 2jz what was my first plan then it seems like it would be much more money with a 2jz in and to get it to 400-500hp... i simply donno what to do :/

    and i fkin love a 6cylinder :/
     
  10. BenRice

    BenRice Well-Known Member

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    Friends like spending money that isn't theirs

    You don't want to go SR but you're considering a 2JZ?

    Best do some research first. Have a look / search through the build threads and see what people have done to get those power levels
     
  11. danjohnston92

    danjohnston92 Member

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    I have a complete running 300bhp ca18det with gearbox if your interested some parts to note are new T28 turbo, tubular manifold, ported and polished inlet manifold, stage 3 ecu, 444cc injectors, walbro 255 pump, z32 afm and cone filter
    mines fpr
    few other bits and bobs..
    if you are interested in any bits/ spare parts?

    Danny.
     
  12. niksa.barisic

    niksa.barisic New Member

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    Danny thanks for the offer but i will go on with mine...



    So fellow drifters i am with complete engine sitting at the machine shop and waiting for parts....

    As for block it is currently standard but will go for a 1stage overbore or how do u say so the pistons will be 83.5mm

    The crank is machined and polished at stage 1 too at 0.025, so it needs 0.025 bearings...

    So i would need recommendations for this size pistons and bearings and what to get for rebuilding the head etc?

    Please help.. i will start orders next week
     
  13. niksa.barisic

    niksa.barisic New Member

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    Anyone on pistons and rods? experience? any rebuilding to the head for that kinda whp?
     
  14. CamsX

    CamsX New Member

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    Hi there, how is your rebuild going? I'm new to the forum, but joined to share with you my experience. I've have been through 2 rebuilds of my CA18, and even thought it required more money and downtime, I would like to stick to it as long as possible. Since I live Panama, engines and parts are not readily available, so having one of the few running CA18DETs in my country is more a thing about pride, specially with most of my friends swapping RB25s or SR20s when they need a new engine.

    To quickly summarize, 1st time I had worn rings and the 2nd time I had a spun bearing on cylinder #4. So I've bought CP pistons, new OEM CA crankshaft and a bunch of other internals.

    If you don't have any particular issues at the moment, I would do the following (some are optional):
    - ARP studs everywhere, headstuds, mains, rods and even flywheel. Eric performance parts on ebay has most of them.
    - New bearings. I use clevite and for some reason never went for ACL (bad fame in the US forums)
    - For peace of mind CP pistons. I also did overbore to 83.5mm and increased my compression to 9.0:1 ratio
    - I installed Tomei valve springs and poncams, but not sure if you want to spend money on that.
    - The most difficult part for me has been the headgasket. I installed Cometic the 1st time, but it leaked probably because of bad machine job, but not much to be said about local shops, so on the 2nd rebuild I went back to OEM (fel-pro) which should last up to the same figure you are aiming. If you trust your shop then go metallic HG, but the work there must be perfect.
    - OEM rods are supposed to be forged. Of course, they are old, but if they are still good then no need to change them. Mine where fine so reused them.

    Even with all these goodies I still haven't been bothered to crank up the boost and get a proper tune. It currently is at 8psi on 2560r with a basic street tune. I want to learn how to drift on low power 1st, or so I say. Drifting is way behind here, that just recently we started to get support from the local track, so I have no hurry.

    Anyways, Nistune is great and inexpensive in comparison. Good fuel system and a good turbo for your targets. Just don't forget to run a single catch can for each valve cover because the little CA loves to breath. Good luck!
     
    #14 CamsX, Oct 26, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2017
  15. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    Whoever machined the crank will/should be able to provide you with matching bearings, ACL usually, did it need grinding?

    Used to be several options for oversized pistons, think Wiseco still do offer them, lots of places still do rods.
     
  16. niksa.barisic

    niksa.barisic New Member

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    The crankshaft was mashined before me , and not much kilometers the engine died of ring failure on cylinder 3... so the crankshaft is just repolished and is on 0.25 tolerance for bearings(they are all in great shape but ofcourse i wont reuse them) , so how we say here that is the 1.st special .

    i tought on going for the tomei metal headgasket, and ofcourse it needs to be well machined....

    i dont wanna be too cheap and not buy arp every single bolt on the engine , and forged atleast eagle rods...and i was looking at CP pistons 83.5mm (since the cylinder wall is fxcked from piston ring it needs to be bored anyhow... what is the difference in 8.5 an 9. compression ration , what is the pro and what con ?

    i'm bothered with nistune and the way it communicates..

    how about Vems?
     
  17. CamsX

    CamsX New Member

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    Higher compression ratio might give a more responsive motor on low revs and boost build up, and maybe a little more torque early on, which the ca18 lacks.

    The drawback is that it would limit the amount of boost compared to lower compression, or to combat this it might require higher octane fuel.
     
  18. steve_fctuning

    steve_fctuning ECU Tuner&Specialist

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    Nice to see an owner still giving the CA some love. A fantastic little engine. Been a proud CA owner n lover since 1997 when I picked up my S13. Many moons ago

    I’m actually planning a freshen up of my own CA as I’ve not driven mine since Trax 2004, lol. Back then she was sitting around 430/440hp.

    Look forward to reading your progress over time

    Good luck with the build.

    Ps. The CA is a very capable power unit when dealt with properly, as with anything
     
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  19. black smoke

    black smoke Member

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    mate for ur 300whp u dont need all that if ur engine is running healthy ,all u need is if u wanna do it with stock internals to last is ;

    balance the stock pistons

    balance stock rods , get arp crank studs for oem rods

    balance crank and flywheel with PULLEY * cover plate also

    arp head studs for this 300whp dont bother about arp for crank cups

    stock head gasket or metal head gasket, if u cant be bothererd skiming the block use stock oem head gasket

    no port to head need at all for that bhp level , no afthermarket intake needed

    exhaust cam on intake side

    nistune work wonders plug and play a trust worthy mapper and u get ur 300whp with ;

    gt2871r .89 housing

    gt3071r .64 housing

    holset hy35w 10cm

    get 700cc injectors minimum 1000cc will be a bonus as when u forge it u can run a lot more boost depending on turbo of choice , do use any headgasket apart from 1.2mm , walbro will work ok onthis bhp level 255lph

    if u decide to go forged on a budget

    chinese rods are of awesome quality / make sure u balance it

    wiseco or cp personally cp myself / balace it aswell

    and full proff

    forged make sure u dont waste ur money and buy or rent a torquening plate rebore your block with it , no point in given ca18 bad rep if cant built them properly

    i made many times stock ca18 500bhp at the engine 430whp

    and now running 736bhp ca18, still on stock crank with oem stroker 83.6mm , got many dynos to back it up

    running gtx3582r with .82 housing start spool ,

    4k 0.5 bar 100bhp ,

    5k 1.2bars 200bhp

    5.5k 2.6bars 550bhp

    7k 2.8 bars 700bhp

    8k 3.2bars 736bhp limited to 8k

    over 2 bars of boost tomei valve springs are rubbish valve float

    i use for this bhp level stock oem bearings and my own costumized rb26dett fluiddampr on my ca18 to absorb the destortional vibration from the crank , stopping it from sending the vibration to the oil pump cracking the oil pump gear = dropping the oil pressure ,and engine would dies very fast from there

    for 736bhp ca18 i used haltech ps2000 newer then a nistune able to control full time my staged intake pump set up , oil , fuel and radiator coolant pressure ,the ps2000 ecu hasenty got a built in knock sensor but i wired a knock sensor to one one my haltech channels so if it enters any harmufull detonation the engine / ecu will enter limp mode saving it from big explosion

    nistune very capable but u need to look at the gauges constantly

    haltech ps2000 i activated the fail safe so the ecu does all the looking out for me

    i dont want to mention the mapper name even been ripped of by him pretending he was mapping my car in marlow ,i have asked him to dyno the car before he could map it , he said to me its not safe lol afther i been driven the car for weeks , same mapper spend 3 hours pretending he was mapping , afther a year i got used to my ecu at the time haltech e8 older version i found out the map that i was running before this mapper or efi tunner specialist he havent done nothing at all to it but raised in a very poor way the fuel slightly

    i compare the maps and found out i was scammed was my first dyno ever i was like a blind kid clueless , my money had gone but i was left where i was

    same mapper i asked him can u map my car to 700bhp i had all figure out all the engine was ready , build ready to dyno and he wanted to build my own engine asking me questions in order to trick me making me belive he actually knew what he was on about , he was advising me like he had mapped any 600bhp ca18 even he owns ca18 s13

    afther spend time affort putting my ca18 togheter i didnt trust him to map it so i took my sorry ass else where , where the new mapper with a bit more understanding about how efi tuning works

    choose wise as u will need one that u can trust to make ur set up work

    so pay attention with the mappers out there, without a clue how efi tune works

    ca18 are awesome engines keep the good work :-)

    and remenber anyone in uk making over 611bhp ca18 allready making highest bhp ca18 in a country nothing to be proud of but the mapper that mapped my car in uk mapped in that day highest bhp ca18 in united kingdom

    hope not had upset no one

    if u want any ca18 advise its free just ask ;-)
     
  20. black smoke

    black smoke Member

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