Edited: E36 4 pot, sort of low budget. Possible actual skids soon.

Thread in 'Project Cars and Builds Threads' started by Marcus_E36, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    Been working 13 hour days 7 days a week at the moment ! Did manage to take a week off where I worked on a friends car - may throw it up on here just as some filler until I manage to work on my own car !
     
  2. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    UPDATE:

    So working my ass off at the moment. 13 hour work days doesn't leave much room for anything else. However I did manage to work on a mates car while I had a week off.

    Picture says a thousand words so I will let them do most of the talking.

    18676763_120332000963559939_1552714235_o.

    So after a night of beer, me and my mate where chatting. Low and behold a 2.3 engine with box and EWS deleted ECU popped up for a steal . Journey to Essex later and we had the engine. His is a late E36 coupe with 318is engine.

    New engine - Not much known, M52 2.3 Litre that was sat outside for a bit. Did come with EWS delete, 7.2K Rev limit and a supposed "remap". Well lets see what happens.

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    Old engine on the way out. Must say that gravel driveways absolutely suck ! Ball ache to work on but in the end we got it out. First ever engine change I have done so was a learning experience but it really wasn't all that difficult. I would advise anyone to have a go unless you are a complete monkey.

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    Someone had been in here before and bypassed the OEM alarm system (yay - just what I wanted to see) So I dealt with some of that and did the EWS bypass.

    Then I did some of this.

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    Swearing at stuff works right ? I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't start, kept setting off the alarm (even though bypassed) thought I was in a right mess but stuck the battery on charge and redid all my connections. Charged battery sorted the alarm woes and as it turned out my dumb ass had got the fuel lines on the wrong way around !

    Anyways got that sorted and she started first time ! RESULT.

    As you can see form the above my phone at the time was basically a potato ( I don't tend to do modern technology) so pics are a bit shite and I didn't take a lot.

    Final(ish) product below.

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    Ignore the cable ties - it was a solution to a problem at the time. Trust me - it is being rectified.

    So yeah - that was my first ever engine swap. Took probably 4 days total of relaxed working. Not bad at all.

    Sorry for the thread derail - I will get back to my saloon ASAP - Just need to find the time :)

    So it isn't forgotten, see below. I got a new phone so pics should be less terrible.

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    So that's the journey so far. Me and my mates have a few niggles to sort on all the cars but we are getting there :) Hope to be up either Pod or Arena soon for some more legit sessions.

    Thanks all for sticking with me so far. Progress will happen albeit slowly.

    Have a good weekend all.
     
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  3. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    UPDATE:

    Still plugging away with work, managed to buy some cool shit which I will bolt up soon ;) lets just say lock mods and welded diff are on the way. Currently cleaning/painting parts and gathering a few final bits and pieces.

    Not really driven the car much, however I start my new job soon and will be earning more monies to do cool skid car type stuff.

    Will update when I get round to bolting up the parts :)

    Thanks all
     
  4. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    UPDATE:

    So first off - not updated in a while, main reason being I was actually hospitalised for a week and spent a further 4 off of work ! All while changing jobs too so as you can imagine life has been hectic.

    Turns out I have asthma and it was complicated by a chest infection . I wonder if I can get a blue badge so my fat ass has less of a walk to the shops ?

    Anyway - enough of that, I did take the time off to live on the bay of E and stalk Facebook sale posts so some cool shit happened. Not sure where to start so will just throw up what I got and how it progressed.

    When doing the rack spacers I couldn't adjust the tie rods so new ones ordered (Old vs New below)

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    Old ones where crusty ! Along with those some bargains made their way to me.

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    I know some people bitch at E46 arms but for £25 I wasn't going to argue - ball joints seem good - they came off a late compact that had found its way to a scrapyard.

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    Hmmmmmm MIG SPEC - Picked up a small case welded diff for £35 - not 100% convinced on the welds but at that price and the fact I am only running 115bhp it should be okay. Also means I have the diff already in the car (currently open) as a spare after I swap them out.

    Ebay hunting one day and a bargain I couldn't resist turned up. A set of 20% lock adaptors and some stock hubs with good bearings. I mean, it'd be rude not to do more while I change the arms etc right ? So painted everything matt black because it makes you skid better and adds like 75 bhp.

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    I was lazy and couldn't be bothered to sand everything so just cleaned them up, de- greased and slapped on the paint - isnt amazing but 100 X better than orange rust colour. Bolted it all together to see what I was working with.

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    E46 lollipops still fitted, obviously they need to be changed. Now do I grind the head down and fit stock stuff or buy shiny stuffs ? Went for shiny stuffs obviously so a quick look online and found StrongFlex UK do a poly bush that's 60mm to fit the E36 lollipop carrier but retain a hex insert for the E46 arms.
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    Yellow because driftcar. Spent an afternoon messing with them.

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    The first one was a bitch to get out but once I worked out the technique the second one took minutes to do.

    Here is where I think I fucked up. In my mind the rear of the wishbone moving inwards brings the wheel back slightly from the suspension top mount thereby creating castor ? However in hindsight I don't actually think that's how it goes. Google actually failed to provide me a correct answer. Think I should of moved the rear of the wishbone out towards the outside ?

    Anyways - that's how I have done it and if it drives like poop I can revise the set up. Not too much hassle to change them.

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    Can someone please confirm either way ? Also if I am wrong why doing them the other way creates more castor ? I like to understand how stuff works ! Thanks :D

    Wasnt intending to do this much on this car and I guess its no longer classed as a budget build. That being said the whole sum of parts was like £100 including the diff, hubs, hub adaptors, arms and polybushes so I don't feel bad about it.
     
  5. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    UPDATE:

    Cant leave it at the above without showing the bits bolted on can I ? Whipped the arms off - surprisingly they came off quite easy. As I have the spare set of hubs I took them off attached to the arm - probably made life easier.

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    As you can see the brakes are not exactly "mint" so again I went to the mysterious world of online auctions. £30 later and I was off to a local town to collect this.

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    Whole box of random E36 parts including new discs and pads + shoes for the rear. Being a 1800 8V it uses drums on the rear, some other random items in there too like ignition leads and filters which are always handy to have about. They are definitely not performance parts but they are new and should work okay.

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    So bolted the stuff up - the black bits make the rest look shit haha - the above was only part fitted but only pic I have. Need to drill a hole in the arms to mount the ARB but that's no biggie. I know some people remove them completely but I'm not mega low, I am on cheap coilovers and the cars I have driven with no ARB have driven like dogshit in my opinion so will be retrofitting it.

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    AM I CAMBERGANG NOW ?

    So that's with the E46 arms and some camber shims. I actually have the top mounts set to max positive so have loads of adjustment once I have driven it and get a feel for things. Looks a little too "back tot he future" for me so have got some 25mm hubcentric spacers on the way should give it a better "stance" but more importantly give me a nice wide track, so what sort of lock does 4mm rack spacers, E46 arms and 20% bolt on hub adaptors give you ?

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    I still need to adjust the tie rods - bit of toe in at the moment but angry me lost his shit and damaged the new ones so need to order more. Yes, the car is jacked up but I was checking clearance - no rubbing at all, bonus. Will get some pics of it actually on the floor when I get new tie rods in and the spacers arrive.

    Up next is to fit the Mig spec diff and rear camber arms, tie rod ends and spacers. I am also going to refresh all the nuts on the front end for 10.9 nylocks. I don't want any of this shit falling apart on me. Figure I may as well use new hardware too as I went to all the trouble of above.

    Update to follow when I get some spare time. Currently started my new job last week and am doing evenings/weekends to make up the time I had off.

    Thanks for reading - hopefully inspire some people to give stuff a go and show you can get some decent deals on parts - just need to look out for them.

    Until next time !
     
  6. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    UPDATE:

    Okay so I talked to some informative peoples.

    When I fitted the Eccentric bushes I was thinking of mechanical trail (like a shopping trolley wheel) not castor so I have actually fitted them wrong (doh !) However I am actually going to leave them like that - I am most likely wrong but my plan is to rotate to top mounts and set them max rearward for more castor. What I am thinking is that in effect I will have increased castor and a small increase in mechanical trail.

    I might be waaaaaay off but its something I am going to try. If it drives like poo I can rotate the bushes to suit but as they are in and done I may as well try this set up and see how it goes.

    No actually progress thus far - more a "brain fart" update moment but if anyone has any thoughts / insight I am more than welcome to hear them :)

    Thanks
     
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  7. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    UPDATE:

    So my spacers arrived - 25mm stud conversion. Bargain at £35 off someone breaking a skidder. Go them bolted on to see what I had to work with.


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    So you can probably imagine where this going - I want to fit under a stock arch but we shall see how that works out. As previously mentioned I also wanted to sort out the castor ( me being a dumb fuck meant I fitted them reversed) however my salvation is I think it's increased mechanical trail. However I still need more caster. I also obviously need more camber to get these sitting under the arches + give me better contact patch when on lock. So I swapped and rotated my top mounts.

    21584099_10155398742196293_1057303894_o.

    So the theory behind the above is give me some Camber and also create some castor. My hope is the increased castor + Increase in mechanical trail should give it good feel and self center. I have yet to test this though - if I am off, I'll just rotate the bushes to suit, so I got this set up and also played with ride height. Results below.
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    Far too low for me on the front but it does have an air of "hard parked to fuck" although not to my taste so she will come up a bit, not had it off the handbrake after jacking it up so that is why the rear is sky high haha. You can see in the second to last picture the wheel is sitting back in the wheel well. So the wheel is now further behind the mounting point of the wishbone on the sub-frame, that is where my "mechanical trail" theory is.
    Been working my ass of so hopefully get enough money together to bring this back out and drive the thing. I erm........I still need to fit my welded diff.

    Update as and when !

    Thanks
     
  8. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    UPDATE:

    Hello all, been a while - busy with work blah blah blah. Anyway, first off can we take a moment to mourn the death of the daily ? It was a noble steed but the gearbox has issues and I don't have the time or resources to fix it :( Farewell Mondeo - you munched miles like a hero.
    IMG_20171028_171943.

    Anyway - it's for sale on Ebay or if a Driftworkser wants it for parts/to repair hit me up and we can do a deal.

    So what does this mean ? Well I needed a car and after borrowing a 1.8D fiesta van from work for a week I had a plan. Yes, the drifter was about to be pulled form it's 5 month lay up and be pushed into immediate service, a quick hunt for final parts/bits ensued and I spent a very cold and wet Saturday working outside to get it done. Does it make a good daily ? No, not really, it's far too low. It is great fun though. Currently on a home brew alignment (Eyeballed in a car park) Surprisingly it only pulls to the left slightly, no bother - it will get booked in to sort professionally soon enough. So what does it look like now I have fettled with a few bits ?

    IMG_20171106_171426.
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    So sitting okay - Last pic the handbrake was on after jacking it up so it looks raked. Sits fairly level. Not a huge fan of rake personally and front camber looks silly but it drives fine and wheels fit with 0 rubbing. Main advantage is on full lock the inside wheel sits upright so I must of done something right. Self correction seems to be good, I can't fully commit to a answer as I have yet to have it properly aligned but the Castor and "feel" of the steering suits me.

    I think the combination of Eccentric bushes being fitted in reverse + the top mount rotation have both combined to give what I was after. Only thing is due to the front wheel sitting further back in the arch I am scrubbing on full lock on the inside rear (behind the little black cover for ABS/Brake wear sensor) Doesn't seem like an area that can be massaged to suit so I may have to rotate the eccentric bushes to how they should be which will give me more castor anyway so isn't a loss - worthwhile experiment though, even just to settle my curiosity.

    Those lock adaptors and rack spacers ? Well they appear to work well. Ackerman is good and the lock isn't bad. It isn't a "Yo, watch this reverse entry" but its enough to go in faster and transition harder so I count it a success, bar the catching on full lock.
    IMG_20171104_134958.
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    I STILL NEED TO DO THE DIFF - I know, I have failed miserably at doing it but I've not had the time currently. Should be rectified on Sunday though and then I can look to getting an alignment done and finally, I can do a skid day.

    That's it for now, no issues to speak of, it still works fine and is still a laugh to throw about for a low powered car. Once the diff and arms are on that's it for now. I'll be happy with the set up, do some skids, break some shit and see what happens. Debating a twincam as I think I'll soon get tired of the 115bhp and a nice little upgrade to 140 will be nice. Capable engines and easily sourced at cheap price.

    So as a little thing to do I am going to list the parts on the car and costs (parts/shell only) as the car is basically finished ( I have all the parts I need in stock, just need to be fitted)

    Car: £200.00
    Suspension: £150.00
    Seat: £40.00
    Seat Rails: £66.00
    TRS Harness: £66.00
    Hydro: £75.00 (Inc replacement cylinder)
    Wheels: £60.00
    Lock adaptors: FREE (Bought for £40 with set of hubs, hubs sold on for £40.00)
    Rack Spacers: £4.00
    Steering Wheel + Boss: FREE ( Leftover from previous cars)
    E46 Arms: £20.00
    Camber top mounts: £40.00
    Camber shims: £4.00
    Diff: £25.00
    Camber arms: £40.00
    Paint: £10.00
    Poly bushes: £40.00
    Spacers: £35.00

    Total: £875.00

    Obviously there are sundries (Service Items, Tyres, M.O.T etc) but as a total parts cost that is what it has come in at.

    I can throw in a 6 pot for £300.00 if I really wanted and have a pretty well spec'd car for less than £1200.00

    So there we go, for anyone interested that's the build cost at current. It does mount up but end of the day I've had a hell of a lot of fun building it and an even more fun time driving it. I know everything is done to my standard and I know all the little quirks, mods, changes that have been made.

    Next update will most likely be diff/rear arms and then after that I will make it to a skid day.

    Until next time !

    IMG_20171104_133139.
     
    #28 Marcus_E36, Nov 9, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2017
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  9. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    UPDATE:

    Hello all, been a little while. Using the car as a daily driver at the moment and did some late night shenanigans. Clutch started slipping :( I thought it would need changing so I currently have the new clutch in and the car "mostly" back together. Well, the new clutch and box are back on. I had intedned to drift at a Swaffham event today (27-12-2017) but car wasn't ready.

    Never mind. I did get to drive a friends car instead. We shared the driving and must say, had a blast. Shout out to Team Skid it, Skidworks and NADT for an awesome event. Soon as some cool pics arrive I shall throw them up :)
     
  10. RWDvolvo

    RWDvolvo New Member

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    Nice mate !
     
  11. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    UPDATE:

    So, Xmas rolled around - belated Xmas/New Years to you all.

    Thought I would treat myself so picked up some E38 BBS Wheels. They are 16x8 ET23. 2 had decent tyres so bolted them on to see what was what.

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    Sit pretty sweet. I run a 25mm spacer up front so end up with ET-2, this is with a 215/45/16 tyre. I quite like it. With some nice grippy front wheels sorted and some random spare 16's on the rear I had a plan formulated.

    Swaffham was running a day on the 27th December - figured I would prep the car for that. First legit skid day ! I dropped the gearbox out, replaced the clutch, zipped it all back up and started the car. Went to put in gear and drive away happy that I could do a skid without a slipping clutch and guess what ? It wouldn't go into gear :( So I fiddled about, bled everything up and checked all the gearbox bolts (just in case) went to start the car, heard a "thunk" deep within the bowls of the clutch and it failed to start :'(

    Couldn't believe it, I have done clutch changes before and never had that issue. Anyway, I admitted defeat and lost my temper so sat the car in a naughty corner. I have since discovered I was sent the wrong clutch plate but the company I bought off has refused to accept liability as I " didn't notify them the car had AC" despite me giving them my number plate. Pissed is a understatement but these things happen - "but what of the skid day" ?! I hear you say. Well not to worry, a friend of mine had recently finished his M50B25 swapped touring and offered me some seat time ! WINNER.

    So, borrowed car, some spare wheels and a jack/wheel brace in hand we rocked up to Swaffham. It was cold, wet and pretty miserable but the driving on track looked fun so we got booked on, donned a borrowed helmet and gave it a go. Amazing fun. Kept it off the walls and even managed to link the full track towards the end of the day. Both my friend and I progressed nicely throughout the event, car was mint and despite having an open diff (welded being fit as we speak) it drove really well. The rain helped that though.

    Few pics below.

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    Yes, I put my thumb out the window like a knob, was having too much fun to care hahaa

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    Must take a moment to shout out Lewis Collard for these pics. He stood out there in the pissing rain/sleet to get some good shots.

    Drift day was a success - smiles all round and an undamaged car - I count that a win. It was the first drift event me and my mate attended so I feel we did well to come away with a intact car.

    Onto my Saloon - I took a long hard look at it, recounted what's involved dropping the gearbox and with man logic applied said "F*ck it, If I have to undo all that again I may as well swap the engine" with a few mates nodding along while I laid out my logic and agreeing, I sourced a new engine. Finally, maybe I have gone 6 pot, maybe I have gone out the box with some mental idea ? No, I have sourced a little M44 unit.

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    "WHY?!?!?! WHY NOT DO A 6 POT"?!
    "WHAT'S THE POINT"?
    "ALL THAT WORK FOR THAT"

    Yes, those are the typical responses I have had but my reasoning is:
    A. Price - this unit cost me less than a MOT.
    B. I like how the 4 pots handle, less weight up front.
    C. I already have a single mass flywheel and clutch set up to bolt on.

    Besides, we all know the little M44 units are more than capable of a skid and I am still having fun driving with momentum as opposed to power. No doubt in future I will upgrade to a 6 cylinder but for now I want to experiment and have a rev happy 4 pot up front.

    Picked that up today so no progress on install yet, picking up a new daily tomorrow (don't ask, it's awful) then I can crack on with pulling the engine out and refitting a nicely sorted M44 unit with some clutch/cooling upgrades to suit - light, 140(ish) BHP and simple. Suits me perfect.

    So, that's it so far. Car has come a fair way since I found it with no MOT, no love and ready for death. Plan is to get the M44 in with a XTD paddle clutch, single mass flywheel, silicone hoses where needed and a remapped ECU. I might even throw some subtle breathing mods (Intake/Exhaust) at it. Should be quite a fun thing when done and I can actually start doing some events in 2018, best laid plans and all that.

    NOTE: The 16" BBS Wheels are actually for sale, need of a new daily is currently more important. See the sales section :)
     
  12. Bu11et

    Bu11et Well-Known Member

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    I like this build dude, very good!

    Im glad your staying 4 pot and wanting to learn properly and not get lost with having loads of power!! Nice one mate
     
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  13. BreadBin

    BreadBin Rough Tonguer

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    Surprised to hear that you need a different clutch on cars with AC?
    Good choice on the engine - an e36 saloon with an m44 is a properly well-balanced car. Much more nimble than 6 cylinders, and the lack of power encourages commitment!
     
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  14. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    Same but I think it was more to do with me having a single mass flywheel over a duel - I'm over it, not sure what happened/went wrong but no point dwelling on it as I have M44 powers now :)

    Exactly ! I have had my fair share of driving 6 pots and I will admit they are good for power/torque but throwing it in with full commitment, foot welded to the floor is too much fun !

    Got the engine inside today and popped the plugs out to see what was what - had a poke about down into the cylinders and she looks very clean. Think the engine was out a standard compact so hopefully wasn't too abused. Go the engine sat on a frame atm and will be looking to get gaskets/seals etc sorted before I drop it in.
     
  15. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    Yes sir ! I started off with a 1.6 coupe, then moved on to a 1.8 MX5, then to the M43B18 and now I will be into a M44. I just prefer how a 4 pot drives and it suits my style. Less is more and all that. I am confident the chassis is now pretty well sorted with the front end having loads of grip/being stable. Little upping of power form 115 to 140 and it should be fun. I'm not looking to be some mega drift god. Just like messing about on the cheap and having a good laugh with friends !
     
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  16. T-DOG

    T-DOG New Member

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    I am literally doing the same thing at the moment.
    E36 saloon with M44B19 :thumbs:
     
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  17. Marcus_E36

    Marcus_E36 Member

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    Yeah boy !!!!! I started pulling mine out today but lazy so just got the top end stuff undone. I've never driven an M44 loon so I am excited to see how it pans out ! Any supporting mods with yours or a full OEM swap ?
     
  18. T-DOG

    T-DOG New Member

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    Stock.! :D
    I hope it is just a good balanced car when it is done!
     
  19. brian_s

    brian_s Member

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    Cool wee project this, like the budget build style, need to find something myself and do the same!
     
  20. Minimoke

    Minimoke Member

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    Awesome, good to see more updates. Let us know how the swap goes. Bet that'll be a bit peppier!
     

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