RB30 S15

Thread in 'Technical Questions' started by Brendan-D72, May 29, 2018.

  1. Brendan-D72

    Brendan-D72 New Member

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    Hi there everyone,

    so im new to the Forum. Been viewing and reading posts for a few months, thought it was about time I join and post my first thread.

    A little bit about me;
    -Currently Building a Silvia S15, which I got as a rolling body. (Such a Beauty)
    -My build was originally heading in the direction of putting a 2jz in it. (2J the world), however after quite some consideration and playing around with numbers on the budget I decided to start looking around for an LS1 or LS2 to put in it. (LS swap everything?). I Toyed with the idea for a few weeks until I came across a deal I could not pass up, an RB30 bottom Block with an RB25DET Neo head. for Cheap as chips. I mean yea sure its the neo head (which I've seen a lot of people saying to avoid, but how could I pass up the offer? it was cheap with a lot of potential.) sure the engine comes with no bolt ons and may require me to do a full clean/potential rebuild. I Don't exactly have the greatest knowledge and understanding of RB's, I've always been a Supra/2JZ fanboy. willing to give this engine a chance as I've heard great things about the RB30.

    so putting that little paragraph about my situation aside, I guess what I am trying to get at here is that im looking for some help and advice from all of you.

    Looking at going for anywhere between 800-1000hp. (is this do-able off the RB30bottom/RB25DET Neo head?); What turbo should I look at? (borg-warner? Garrett?); any advice on what parts I should look at grabbing first for it?
    What diff to get for this build, strong reliable?
    Axles?
    drive shafts?
    as you can imagine with the build taking a few big turns in the plans, any advice I can get is going to help.

    quite literally any advice welcome,

    Thanks everyone ;]
     
    #1 Brendan-D72, May 29, 2018
    Last edited: May 29, 2018
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  2. smokebillowing

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    Hi mate, i will try and answer your question as best i can... But please don't take anything as gospel. I'm just telling you how i would approach the problem.

    So first, you need to decide whether you want to see 800bhp or 1000bhp. Whilst our brains may not see much difference between those power figures, 1000bhp is a 25% increase on 800bhp. This is considerable, and will required a different set up.

    First off, from what i've ever read about RB engines, (maybe not 20's) is that they don't like to rev high. This is for a multitude of reasons, the most important of which being the oil pump drive and oil retention in the head. If i was looking for 800-1000bhp out of an RB30 i would look at a jun oil pump drive and pump, or possibly even a stroker kit. forged pistons, billet rods, cams, headgasket, arp headstuds etc etc etc. You will end up replacing damn near every component of the engine.

    At that power level, you are going to either want to run E85 race fuel, or maybe a high octane petrol with nitrous or water methanol, to keep detonation down.

    Gearbox, i would run an RB25 box with an OS GIEKEN gearset and some sort of triple plate clutch setup rated to that power level.

    I don't even know what a stock R200 diff takes, but my friend built a skyline that was 700bhp and he rap a kaaz 2way in an R200 casing with 5 bolt shafts because they're stronger, and that was fine.

    You're going to need a rediculous fuel pump system, probably 044's or something to that effect.

    The list goes on.

    I know it's your car, and it's your decision to do what you like with it, but why not build it to 500BHP where it'll be reliable, driveable and not cost £20k to get on the road?
     
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  3. Brendan-D72

    Brendan-D72 New Member

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    this Reply actually does help, im not 100% certain yet as to where I want the power to be. however would be happy to settle with around 880.

    understandable that they don't like to rev high and the whole engine would basically have aftermarket put into it. i'll take a further look into what you've mentioned and see what brands and other items would be needed in this build and update to see where to go from there.

    thanks man, really appreciated.
     
  4. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    Extra oil drains placed in the head are quite popular to help with the oil retention issue.

    img_0083_large_5b061404-bcbb-4f97-adf3-dbb57c299f48_1200x1200.
     
  5. Bladerider

    Bladerider Ajudged scoundrel !!

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    Probably best if you had just said this mate !!

    If you dont know - and you clearly dont - then its best not to give advice !!!

    To the OP,

    If I wanted an RB
    Specifically an RB30
    And I lived in Auckland
    ...........then without a shadow of a doubt I would simply take a little drive and chat with Rob from RIPS

    He holds world records for RB30 powered cars and given exchange rates etc then you'd be crazy not to see him and get him to sort it all out.

    About the only thiong yer man up there ^^ got right was that it wont be cheap lol
     
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  6. smokebillowing

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    Fair point... i mean i did preface it with the fact that i'm not an expert and have only owned one RB (25) before.

    I also feel like all of this is fruitless, as the OP states that he bought it because it was cheap and got a deal etc etc... So a 1000BHP build is probably going to be out of the question.

    I don't feel i said anything that was ridiculously wrong?
     
  7. Bladerider

    Bladerider Ajudged scoundrel !!

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    Well,

    IMHO....

    R200 diff aint gonna cut it you'll need at least an R240

    RB25 box wont cut it even with a gearset, and its no more expensive at that point to go CD009

    There will be no difference mechanically inside an 800 or 1000bhp RB - once aiming well beyond 600 its essentially the same parts list except perhaps for cams, headwork and a few items that are personal preference anyway
    I don't know if I would bother stroking an RB30 as you're then relying on brands I don't trust like Spool. I definitely wouldn't bother with billet rods lol but yes, I would of course replace every part of the engine - it has nothing in it to support 1000bhp

    I certainly wouldnt use a JUN oil pump, doubly so on an RB30 which are spline driven anyway as I recall - whatever way I would use a 2JZ type spline driven pump or just go dry sump and do it properly

    Fuelling with 044's is pretty standard and certainly not rediculous - in fact you'll use the same size injectors on an 800bhp RB as you would on a 500bhp SR !! There are probably better ways to run fuel systems now depending on ECU anyway
    And no, I wouldn't necessarily assume that E85 is a must, or methanol or any other wonderfuel except perhaps a seperate map specifically for race fuel for race days that is preblended. Oh and Nitrous won't keep det down, its a charge cooler but its a power adder so probably ends up roughly equal, and not to be used particularly with water injection.

    Theres lots to think about for sure, hence why I'd go see Rob if I lived near him like the OP does !!
     
  8. smokebillowing

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    If ok is serious about sinking thousands into an engine, that reply was loads more helpful than your first :p

    Also +1 on RIPS. I've seen some of their drag builds and they're definitely one of the best RB tuners on the planet.
     
  9. BenRice

    BenRice Well-Known Member

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    RIPS is in Rotorua

    OP is in Auckland

    Would like to hear what else the OP has driven / built before saying anything else

    My BS-o-meter is currently off the chart
     
  10. Bladerider

    Bladerider Ajudged scoundrel !!

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    Only a 3 hour drive !!
     
  11. BenRice

    BenRice Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of good RB workshops in Akl before bothering Robbie
     
  12. Brendan-D72

    Brendan-D72 New Member

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    Hey Ben,

    this is my first build I have done, I have a friend of mine who is helping me with the build who used to build road/track cars in South Africa originally. he however has majority of his experience with building 4 cyl motors and the odd v8. I was looking for advice on this motor has I know nothing about RB's as I stated. the motor I bought is an RB30 bottom with a RB25Det Neo head. it came with no bolt ons and the motor does need a good clean/rebuild.

    I'm not trying to bullshit anybody, I was simply looking for help and advice on this. if I was trying to bullshit anybody I would of pretending I knew what I was talking about. cheers mate.
     
  13. Brendan-D72

    Brendan-D72 New Member

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    yea I've been considering giving him a call and taking a drive down there to see him. he definitely has the biggest knowledge of RB builds in the world and has some amazing work.

    I understand it was going to be an expensive build regardless, as I've heard RB's require a lot of attention and money to get them up to those HP numbers. I appreciate what all you have said so far, I know im going to need to get all my research done before just jumping into it all.
     
  14. BenRice

    BenRice Well-Known Member

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    So your first build is an 800hp RB30? What's the most powerful car you've driven?

    Considering you're posting this on a drifting forum i'm making the leap that the S15 will be a drift car. Do you know how to drift competently or are you intending on learning in this 800hp monster?

    To give you an idea, I'm an instructor here in NZ at the Zeroclass Beginner/Amateur days held in Taupo. I've seen a couple turn up with an S15 with a 320rwkw RB25 and struggle for over 5 days with no progression. I've also seen people turn up with a stock RB25 and mastered Track 3 in a day

    Power is fun, but not for learning, and especially not 800hp. The only 800hp RB25/30s in drifting in NZ are in Pro competition

    If you want to continue, then i have taught someone with a mild RB25/30 that did well, but only running low boost, so around 260-270rwkw. He then started in the Advanced class and ran high boost (340rwkw) but ran bearings soon after

    That set up was:

    Sinco exhaust manifold and 3" exhaust and turbosmart 44mm wastegate
    Masterpower turbo (would recommend something like a Kinugawa TD06 20g instead)
    RB25 gearbox and custom dirveshaft
    Link ECU
    Cheap front facing plenum with 825cc Siemens top feed injectors
    Stock FPR
    Walbro 450 fuel pump
    Fenix radiator
    External oil cooler
    Single plate clutch (6 puck, solid centre)
    Locked diff

    That setup would top out at around 350rwkw (600fwhp), but you've got to consider the ancillaries (alternator, RB power steering pump, wiring harness), the maintenance items (coilpacks, water pump, oil pump, timing belt, tensioner, harmonic balancer, oil and coolant lines) and the suspension (coilovers, lock spacers/knuckles, rear subframe bushes, camber & toe arms)

    If you are serious about the 800hp then you'd need a dry sump setup, forged pistons, twin plate clutch, 4 speed dog box, GTR rear subframe, diff and axles, 2000cc injectors, twin external 044 fuel pumps and surge tank, 100mm thick intercooler and something like a Holset HX52 sizewise, not to mention all the suspension and roll cage work to make it even remotely safe.
     
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  15. Brendan-D72

    Brendan-D72 New Member

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    I appreciate the advice on that, it actually helps a lot.

    most powerful cars I've driven (not owned) audi rs4, lotus evora and an r35 gtr.

    I will be building this s15 in the meantime for own pleasure, as a project and a show car. yes in the future potential drift car yes. when it comes to learning and doing actual track drifting I will have something else to learn in. I have not had any plans or intentions on just building a 1000hp machine, jumping in and hoping I can handle it. by all means I understand something like this takes getting used to and will be a big jump from the simple road cars I have driven.
    IF (please not a serious IF) I decide to just learn in the s15 then what I will be doing is starting at a much lower hp to learn effectively and progressively build it from there.

    just to clarify, this thread is purely for building advice and what all I would need to look at and what I should know about RB's before going forwards with anything.
     
  16. Bladerider

    Bladerider Ajudged scoundrel !!

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    Again,

    Someone who clearly hasn't got a clue !!!!

    Why do people who dont know what they are talking about insist on giving advice !!!

    The first spec you quaote is just a pile of crap bolted to presumably a stock engine as you dont mention anything of importance like the internals.
    The second route you advise includes injectors twice as large as you need (unless you also decide to go E85 and even then they're oversize) and a dry sump system - seriously dude, just shut the fuck up and pretend to be a drift instructor - if you cant teach people how to manage any kind of course in 5 days then its YOU thats likely to be doing it wrong !!!

    Man this boils my piss.
     
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  17. BenRice

    BenRice Well-Known Member

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    Clearly doesn't have a clue?

    Ok then, thanks for pointing that out.

    Have a great day
     
  18. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    Handbags!!

    attachment.
     
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  19. danjohnston92

    danjohnston92 Member

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    I've got an Rb30det with 25det VVT head
    Garrett gt3582 etc that I'm looking at putting into my S15 which currently has an rb26dett from a R33 GTR.

    Does anybody have any insight as to the loom I will need? Will the rb26 one work?
    Or will I need a custom loom?
    Do also have link g4+ to go with the rb30det
     
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  20. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    Competition car?? Go custom if it is.
     

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