S14 rear subframe swap question

Thread in 'Technical Questions' started by THICK SOUP, May 13, 2010.

  1. THICK SOUP

    THICK SOUP Active Member

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    I've been looking into swapping a S14 rear subframe into my S13 & was hoping someone can confirm what I think I've learnt.

    1 - The S14 subframe is wider than the S13 subframe so will need offset bushes to get it on (I'm referring to just the subframe)

    2 - The S14 lower arm is also wider than the S13 item, plus the ball joint sits at a different angle to the S13 one.

    3 - You need to use the S13 chamber arm when fitting the S14 subframe.

    So if I've read everything right, the best set up when fitting a S14 rear subframe to a S13 is :-

    S14 rear subframe with offset bushes.
    S14 lower suspension arms.
    S13 chamber arms.
    S14 Diff back plate on the S13 Diff (just cause I have a S13 Diff)

    The only points I'm unclear on (assuming I'm right on the above points) are :-

    What traction arms do you use?
    What ARB do you use?
    Do S13 lower ball joints fit into the S14 arms (I don't want to go 5 stud)?
    How much wider is the S14 subframe & lower arm set up compared to the S13 set up?

    Sorry about the long read & all the questions, but I thought it would be best to ask.


    Stu
     
  2. THICK SOUP

    THICK SOUP Active Member

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    Right just read Mr Bizzle's article on fitting the S14 subframe to the S13, which has answered most of my questions. The only questions left unanswered are :-

    How much wider is the S14 rear end than the S13 one?
    Which ARB do you use?
    Which traction do you use?
    Which chamber arms are best to use?

    Cheers

    Stu
     
  3. Mr Bizzle

    Mr Bizzle In Safe Hands

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    Hello :)
    I saw this last night but was more than a bit mashed so i didn't want to reply with gobbeldygook.

    I have never measured the exact track width. I'll do some research and get back to you on that. It'll be in the measurements section of the workshop manuals.

    Only the S14 one will fit because of the width of the subframe to my knowledge. Anyway, the S14 one is quite a bit thicker.

    S14/R33gtst ones mate - or adjustable S13 ones will also fit.

    I have used Driftworks adjustable S14 ones and they work fine. See picture below. Again, you can't use the standard S13 ones due to the width of the subframe. They will phsically fit, but give you epic camber.

    Anything else, feel free to PM me or if your in the area pop up to see mine. It's on axel stands for the next couple of weeks.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. swiftmini

    swiftmini Active Member

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    I have the same setup on mine, been using it since november and its great.

    Iam using all s13 adjustable arms. Lower arms (s13/14), cambers (s13), toe(s13), traction (s13) and my car is pretty low for a uk car. All the arms fit fine for my application.

    As far as i know the lower arms are the same length but the subframe is 10mm wider iirc.

    Iam using an s13 godspeed anti roll bar on the back and all the adj arms are godspeed also. As far as i can tell most of the nissan rear arbs should fit with a little tinker.

    There are 3 places that need bashing to gain clearance for the frame, if its mounted right up against the chassis.

    If i were you i would judt get it done and worry about in and outs as you go :nod:
     
  5. THICK SOUP

    THICK SOUP Active Member

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    Thanks for the reply's gentlemen.

    I'm defo going down this route. Already got some R33 GTST front lower arms, so the S14 rear frame should complement them nicely.

    So I have a list of parts now, just a couple I want to check

    The lower swivel - will the S13 one fit in the S14 arm? I don't need/want to go 5-stud so was going to use these front & rear PDM Racing - Suspension (scroll down to the roll-center adjuster ball joints), just got to find some in the UK.

    The off-set bushes - Where can I get some from & rough price? I've found these from the US - SPL PARTS but was hoping to find some in the UK.

    Again thanks for the info.
     
  6. THICK SOUP

    THICK SOUP Active Member

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    I thought I'd pop this up.

    S13 track width :-
    Front = 1466mm
    Rear = 1461mm

    S14 track width :-
    Front = 1480mm
    Rear = 1470mm
     
  7. swiftmini

    swiftmini Active Member

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    Those ball joints dont actually do anything other than compromise the amount of clearance your rim will have with the lower arm on full lock.

    The distance between the centre of the ball and the taper is the same as standard. they have just made the body longer which doesnt help.

    you need balljoints with a longer shank. More distance between centre of ball and taper.



    As for the bushes, I made mine and bizzles. I dont know anyone else who make them. Iam not making stuff anymore because it stresses me to much :rolleyes: iam not cutout for business lol.
     
  8. swiftmini

    swiftmini Active Member

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    proper roll centre adjust balljoints

    [​IMG]

    BTW APEX performance are selling the balljoints that dont do anything. someone should warn them lol
     
  9. THICK SOUP

    THICK SOUP Active Member

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    Do you know where I can get the good kind of ball joint? I've look on the interweb & the other type keeps coming up.

    Don't suppose you've got any measurements for the bushes?
     
    #9 THICK SOUP, May 16, 2010
    Last edited: May 16, 2010
  10. swiftmini

    swiftmini Active Member

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  11. THICK SOUP

    THICK SOUP Active Member

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    Had a look around for the good kind of ball joint, looking at £160 - £360 depending on make,. (J's racing, Sunline racing & Moonface all make some). looks like I'll run standard one at first.
     
  12. Jamie-PS13

    Jamie-PS13 Active Member

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    I have run an S14 subframe on my S13 for over 2 years now. I got some solid ally bushes slotted. You can get undrilled ones for not too much moiney then get them drilled off centre. As for arms, all I changed was camber arms for S13 ones.
     
  13. THICK SOUP

    THICK SOUP Active Member

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    Coolio.

    I think I'll measure up & get some alloy ones made, when I get the subframe.

    I was going to get some adjustable camber arms anyway, got some stupid camber happening at moment, just needed to know what type to get. So your running S13 one's Jamie, standard or adjustable?
     
  14. Jamie-PS13

    Jamie-PS13 Active Member

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    The S14 subframe also sits at slightly different angle to S13 one. So either get the front bushes abit thinner or shim the rear.
    I currently run standard camber arms but plan to swap to adjustable.
     
  15. THICK SOUP

    THICK SOUP Active Member

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    With the standard camber arms whats the camber like? Just thinking if the camber isn't to bad I could run the standard arms to start with, then swap to the adjustable ones.

    Any idea how much the bushes will need staggering by?
     
  16. Jamie-PS13

    Jamie-PS13 Active Member

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    Its only a few mm. TBH i didn't bother. How much camber depends on how low you run the car.
     
  17. THICK SOUP

    THICK SOUP Active Member

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    Mine's fairly low, chassis scrapping on speed hump low, & I've got noticeable camber.
     
  18. Mr Bizzle

    Mr Bizzle In Safe Hands

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    The angle of the S14 subframe is WHY people run it in the firstplace :wack:
    S14 subframe has less antisquat than the S13 - gives more traction etc.

    I have fitted solid metal bushes without a top spacer which raises the subframe up to the chassis - this increases antisquad but also helps correct roll centre and flatten the lower arms. So it's kinda give and take without running modified hubs/bJ's.
     
    #18 Mr Bizzle, May 17, 2010
    Last edited: May 17, 2010
  19. Jamie-PS13

    Jamie-PS13 Active Member

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    The spacer would be there to emulate how it sits on an S14. But without it may well have extra benefits you mention.
     
  20. THICK SOUP

    THICK SOUP Active Member

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    So your subframe sits right up against the floor? Are your bushes flush with the top of the holes in the subframe front & rear, just asking if the angle is built into the frame or in the bushes.
     

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