Stretched tyres and the law.

Thread in 'Other Chat' started by matthew_l, Jan 7, 2019.

  1. matthew_l

    matthew_l Member

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    Long atory short. Bored police officer pulled me over a few weeks ago before christmas.

    He went over the car with a fine toothcomb and then decided that the 215 40 15 tyres on an 8j were stretched and deemed unsafe under the construction of use regs.

    Today i received 2x fines and 6 points in the post titled for "use of a vehicle or trailer in a condition likely to cause danger of injury."

    Does anyone have anything in writing which i could provide my solicitor with

    If it helps the car passed mot not 6 days before this happened?

    Matt
     
  2. KevlarRx7

    KevlarRx7 Member

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    Other legal requirements
    Generally, with some exceptions for agricultural vehicles etc., it's against the law to use a tyre that:

    • is not suitably inflated for the use to which the vehicle or trailer is put.
    • has a cut in excess of 25mm or 10 per cent of the section width of the tyre, whichever is the greater, deep enough to reach the ply or cord.
    • has a lump, bulge or tear caused by separation or partial fracture of its structure.
    • is unsuitable in regard to the vehicle's use or to the types of tyres fitted to the other wheels (this does not apply to temporary use spare tyres).
    • has any portion of the ply or cord exposed.
    • is not maintained in fit condition for the use to which the vehicle or trailer is put.
    • has a defect that might cause damage to the road surface or to persons on or in the vehicle or using the road.

    Source;
    https://www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q405.htm

    It seems that it's of the opinion of the officer, I would be inclined to get the opinion in writing of a professional tyre fitter, or better yet whoever fitted them.

    As for mot wouldn't that be a job for vosa?

    If your solicitor is confident and you've got the backing of your tyre fitter I'd possibly take it to appeal.

    Best of luck anyhow hopefully someone can be more helpful (:
     
  3. s13silvia

    s13silvia doughnut muncher

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    First and very important point - road worthy and road legal are two different things. Your MOT pass will have no bearing on this.

    Second point - tyre fitters often have recommended tyre sizes for a minimum and maximum per width of wheel supplied by tyre manufacturers - and if you fall within this scope you will have a strong case. I can tell you straight away that 215 is an appropriate tyre size for up to 8" however where you've shot yourself in the foot is running 40 profile, which makes it look a little stretched. But as far as I'm concerned you're within legal requirements.

    Third point - logic, morality and legal justice are so far separated it's sickening - and this is something you'll realise through life when solicitors and courts are involved.. so don't think because you're in the right, that a judge will go in your favour.

    However, before you try to piss on the officers chips - check your car for other defects first, do you have alloys that protrude even slightly for the body - illegal
    Do you have an aftermarket exhaust that's louder than factory - illegal
    Is your numberplate jdm sized on a uk vehicle, wrong font - illegal
    Did you get his attention by chance, or were you driving unfavourably or acting poorly when pulled?

    I'm not saying to roll over and take it like a bitch, but in future this choice could result in local police making your life very difficult if you don't stay squeeky clean :)
     
    #3 s13silvia, Jan 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  4. PanozGTR

    PanozGTR Member

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    Be interesting to see how this plays out. I run 195/50r15 on 8Js and wouldn't consider them 'overly' stretched at all. Suppose it depends on the copper! As above 215 is the minimum recommended for an 8J so it's soley down to how it looks. Most police officers aren't too clued up on what is/ isn't legal and just go off the way something looks as being wrong.

    2 fines and 6 points is a bit heavy. 215/40 on an 8J is far less likely to kill someone than a knobhead on a phone whilst driving (which I still see daily) yet the punishment is the same?!
     
  5. mint

    mint touch my fruit

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    I got 6 points for 'Tyre Stretch' which fell under offence code CU20. There needs to be an offence code for them to apply it to your licence.

    CU20 Causing or likely to cause danger by reason of use of unsuitable vehicle or using a vehicle with parts or accessories (excluding brakes, steering or tyres) in a dangerous condition

    I didnt fight it, I accepted it and paid the hundreds of £ took the points, Got my licence back and BANG, CU20 x2. Called the Cops up, They told me to speak to the court.. Spoke to the court, they said speak to the cops.. Phoned em back and their reply quoting to the word.. 'Well, You shouldn't have accepted it then..' So for years, I was half way to banned because they didn't have sweet fuck all to do.

    Other's were stopped up here, went to court and won.

    Ask em what offence code it falls under..

    The other point to make is, Its a recommendation what the manufacturer provides. Not a rule.

    Also did they take photo's?

    I reported them to the Complaints Commission and to the Chief Constable, both of which dismissed my case.

    Corruption at its finest.
     
    #5 mint, Jan 8, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2019
  6. s13silvia

    s13silvia doughnut muncher

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    Interestingly I just got pulled for this 2 days ago. Seems like the police are hotting up on it. I'm running big bubble tyres too but none-the-less I don't want my cards marked. No points, no fine, no producer just advised to get it changed or face a prohibition and required re-sit of MOT.

    Here's a tyre equivalency sheet from a UK tyre distributor so this should stand good ground as evidence and advice for others. Looks like the days of 'flush' fitment are well and truely over folks.

    https://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk


    Equivalency table
    Rim width Minimum tyre width Ideal tyre width Maximum tyre width
    5,0 Inches 155 mm 165 or 175 mm 185 mm
    5,5 Inches 165 mm 175 or 185 mm 195 mm
    6,0 Inches 175 mm 185 or 195 mm 205 mm
    6,5 Inches 185 mm 195 or 205 mm 215 mm
    7,0 Inches 195 mm 205 or 215 mm 225 mm
    7,5 Inches 205 mm 215 or 225 mm 235 mm
    8,0 Inches 215 mm 225 or 235 mm 245 mm
    8,5 Inches 225 mm 235 or 245 mm 255 mm
    9,0 Inches 235 mm 245 or 255 mm 265 mm
    9,5 Inches 245 mm 255 or 265 mm 275 mm
    10,0 Inches 255 mm 265 or 275 mm 285 mm
    10,5 Inches 265 mm 275 or 285 mm 295 mm
    11,0 Inches 275 mm 285 or 295 mm 305 mm
    11,5 Inches 285 mm 295 or 305 mm 315 mm
    12,0 Inches 295 mm 305 or 315 mm 325 mm
    12,5 Inches 305 mm 315 or 325 mm 335 mm
     
  7. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    Challenge it, get plenty of evidence.

    Chances are they won't even show up to argue the matter anyway.
     
  8. s13silvia

    s13silvia doughnut muncher

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    I'm not sure about the cops where you are, but up here there's been quite a lot of cases where cops have taken people for non-standard noise-level exhausts (some quite timid), stretched tyres etc. and will go to court, and rarely seem to lose (solicitor dependant).

    I had a lengthy chat with a long-time served traffic cop yesterday; the only reason people say 'grey area' regarding the law is because it covers a spread of potential violations.

    His advice to stay completely above the law regarding wheels/tyres was as follows:
    1) Keep within the vehicle manufacturers supplied wheel size (so from their basic range to sporty range).
    2) Keep within the tyre manufacutrers recommended tread width per wheel width
    these provide two pieces of evidence that will support you in court - however..

    3) ensure suspension changes do not result in a difference in clearance, camber to a degree it could be percieved as dangerous condition.
    4) ensure suspension changes or wheel offset does not bring the wheel or tyre too close to the wheel arch, inner wheel tub or suspension components, as they can argue under extreme load the tolerance/space is not enough to allow full motion of wheel without contact
    5) if sticking within the tyre manufacturers guidelines make sure it does not bring the tyre too close to the wheel arch/suspension - if this is unavoidable, you must opt for a narrower or higher offset wheel.
    6) whilst excessive negative camber itself is not an offense directly, it could be percieved to be putting the vehicle into dangerous condition due to the load against suspension components like tie-rods, cv joints etc.; along with the obvious issue of causing uneven tyre wear.
    7) ensure vehicle is not excessively low - as again, any contact between the vehicle and the road under load; or any contact between wheel and tub can be percieved as dangerous.
    8) ensure front wheels can turn lock-to-lock and still maintain sufficient clearance all round - if your only solution is stretching the tyres - correct the wheel offset/width.

    He also advised:
    1) Neither an MOT tester or tyre fitter has any influence; it's not their job to ascertain road legality, just road-worthiness - they are not one-in-the-same. As of 2018 an MOT tester can no longer fail a stretched tyre according to Vosa but that doesn't make it legal.

    2) We're not out to just collect revenue or meet targets, or to stop people modifying their cars - We're the guys who have to go out and see people in horrific states and in pieces following road accidents; and whilst people are often sure of their knowledge and mechanical abilities; when it comes to an emergency driving situation; the vehicle won't behave the same - and it's undoubtadly safer to stay as close to the manufacutrers design as possible in this instance. We only want people to be safe and not to endanger other road users.


    Now I can say from personal experience that I've had the odd dick-head cop do me for the most minor of things, and have a sarcastic attitude to boot. BUT I've had more pulls where the police have been very plesant, decent and fair and I think that's mostly down to my friendly attitude when they come to the door. My last pull for stretched tyres and excessive lowness resulted in an hour of getting the craic. So maybe instead of viewing as a competition to see who can get away with the most - why not just be a little more sensible when modifying cars? Instagram lows aint much use for daily driving anyway lol.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    Pretty militant at times, doubly so if you're an Asian lad. Lots of issues with anti-social behaviour in cars though so it's totally understandable.

    Like you say don't use a car thats obviously going to attract their attention.
     

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