The HOLSET Thread

Thread in 'Technical Questions' started by dale_b, Nov 23, 2012.

  1. anzhar

    anzhar Member

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    I have a 'big' h1c with 21cm housing, however i have also bought an 11cm housing for it from compressor racing because ive read the stock one is too big.

    Both housings are twin scroll

    The plan is to put it on a forged 2.0 beams altezza

    What kind of reaponse and power can i expect from each housing?

    Im having to get a custom manifold made. Is it worth going twin scroll? Will it make a difference on my setup?

    Im looking for around 400whp and good spool. Would happily take 325whp with little lag as possible.
    For example boost from 3000rpm up to 8000rpm
     
  2. ET89

    ET89 New Member

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    Use the 11cm housing, will be able to give you 400wwhp with the least amount of lag possible for the h1c.
    The 21cm housing is huge and will give you tons of lag on a 2.0. stay away from that one.
     
  3. Nite_Shayde

    Nite_Shayde Active Member

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    For what you want I'd say a H1C is a bit big, even with the small(er) 11cm turbine housing.

    "Im looking for around 400whp and good spool."

    HX32 in the right spec, but hard to find.

    "Would happily take 325whp with little lag as possible. For example boost from 3000rpm up to 8000rpm"

    A good spec HX30 or HE221W would do in that case.

    But if you're set on running the H1C though, deffo do the 11cm with a proper twin scroll mani. Here's an extract from Stav's site about 12cm HX35s ('Big' H1Cs are basically older HX35s) on 2ltrs:

    Spool-wise, a 12cm on a 2ltr with a twin scroll manifold is well proven to see 25psi+ by around 3500rpm, which is fantastic for a turbo of this size. Using a single scroll manifold and a 2ltr I’ve seen more like 1000rpm slower spool, 4500rpm, but still no lag between gearchanges, and some, just not ‘full’, boost long before then.
     
    #1723 Nite_Shayde, Nov 21, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
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  4. dmension

    dmension New Member

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    this is a long/interesting thread. i've got a nissan ca18det that gets built.

    HKS 272 8.5mm cams
    Tomei valve springs
    Wiseco 83.50
    Pauter X-beam rods
    ACLH rod/main bearings
    Cometic gaskets
    ca18de 80.000 km low mileage crank
    All new and being weight out and balanced.

    new Holset HE221w 6cm billet (not from ebay or China)
    Haltech e8 stand alone
    444cc rb26 injectors and maybe running on LPG.

    when the car has been on the bank I will complete this forum and share how a HE221w does it on a ca18det
     
    #1724 dmension, Mar 9, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
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  5. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    You'll want larger than 444 injectors to get the most out of that Turbo.
     
  6. dmension

    dmension New Member

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    I'm talking with a seller of 800cc Sard injectors
     
  7. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    Just make sure they're genuine and not some Chinese knock-offs, there's loads of fake Sard gear knocking around.

    Get em flow benched if/when you buy to be sure.
     
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  8. joelhachiroku

    joelhachiroku Member

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    So had my stock as rock 1j non vvti on the dyno.
    Hx35 pretty sure its a 52mm comp wheel
    Stainless .7ish rear housing. As had no rear housing.
    Single scroll sinco manifold
    Tial 44mm
    3" exhaust
    440cc 2j injectors
    Vq25 63mm e throttle
    20psi
    402hp
    521nm
    Let me know what you ladies think
    Screenshot_20200313-205404_Instagram.
     
  9. bigdave z20

    bigdave z20 Member

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    Although the results aren’t terrible it would seem to me like there’s an issue. Seems like it’s lacking low/mid range. Boost leak or something? I follow you on Instagram so I know you have an aftermarket inlet which can effect low end power. Also the 3” downpipe but I’m sure youre pushed for space so no other option.

    LOVE your car man, it’s awesome
     
    #1729 bigdave z20, Mar 15, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
  10. r3k1355

    r3k1355 Well-Known Member

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    Peak is just before 6k, is that expected for this setup?
     
  11. Chris Gizzi

    Chris Gizzi New Member

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    What turbo blanket size are you for guys using for an hx-50? I've tried both t6 and t4. Ones a bit too big, the other a bit too small. Opinions on brands please!
     
  12. joelhachiroku

    joelhachiroku Member

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    Bigger dump pipe is def on the cards man.
    Ive gone back to a stock intake and a e throttle conversion.Think engines bit down on compression to be honest.
    I did a vac leak before it went on the dyno and all seemed good.
    Going to do a few track days so i can enjoy it for a bit then put in a refreshed bottom end and do a 3.5 dump and exhaust.
     
  13. BenRice

    BenRice Well-Known Member

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    Worth checking to see if the Tial is cracking open if it's easy to access

    Any idea what pressure spring is in it?
     
  14. joelhachiroku

    joelhachiroku Member

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    Yeah easy to get to man. Not a bad idea
     
  15. joelhachiroku

    joelhachiroku Member

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    the spring is either 11 or 14 i think
     
  16. Risto

    Risto New Member

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    This is my first post in this forum.
    Hello.
    The reason I am posting is that I read from some topics about using HX35 on RB25DET and the general consensus was that it’s too laggy turbo. Interesting.
    I’ve just bought Skyline R33 GTS-T with 35 and it still needs a tune. Twinscroll manifold. Supporting mods, but internals a stock.
    I am hoping to get 450hp.

    So, people say it’s laggy. I have 1,85L 4cyl Volvo S40 T4 that has the same turbo. I’ve driven about 35000 kms on the street and have competed on standing mile races.
    Best is 282 kmh.
    It’s about 440hp last time I was on dyno.
    A bit laggy on this engine.



    But surely much less on RB25, right?
    Well, time will tell.
     
  17. Nite_Shayde

    Nite_Shayde Active Member

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    What size turbine housing have you got on your RB25 HX35?

    Assuming you're taking 'lag' to mean later boost threshold, two things spring to mind when trying to determine if a turbo will be too laggy or not:

    1. How well done the rest of the system is
    2. What your personal expectations are

    Regarding the first point, are things being done properly? Not even talking about using mega expensive parts, but is a quality manifold being used, are the mounting faces flat, ports port matched, is the appropriate dp/exhaust size being used for the power, has the setup been boot/wg leak tested, is the mapping good, etc etc. I'm not necessarily posing these questions to you, but they are things to think about when you come across those forum posts from others who claim their particular setup was "too laggy".

    HX35s have been proven to hit 25psi by 3500rpm on 2ltrs with twin scroll manifolds. Which brings us to the second point; what do you personally class as laggy? Seeing as you've lived with a HX35 on your 1.85ltr Volvo (awesome car btw) there's no doubt the same turbo on a 2.5ltr will be far better.

    I'd say you'll be happy if everything is done properly. The only other turbo of consideration at 450 on a 2.5ltr would be a HY35, but they're all single scroll. These are usually at full boost by 3000rpm on 2.5ltr engines. Assuming your turbine housing isn't massive, you'll probably end up very close to that with your twin scroll manifold while allowing for better top end the HX35 will allow for over the HY35. Really a good spec twin scroll HX35 trumps a HY35 then, so you're on the money
     
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  18. Risto

    Risto New Member

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    Thanks for the quick reply!

    In my Volvo I run #12, also twin-scroll housing and my exhaust manifold is twin entry. Made by KKD.
    EGTs are under control. I run RON98 fuel because you can't buy E85 from gas stations.

    This Skyline comes with #16 twin-scroll exhaust housing and twin entry manifold.
    I literally just bought this car and taking it to stage0 before starting the street tune. It's running on Megasquirt 3.
    I hope things are done right but need to check.

    I don't expect big turbos, esp Holsets, to have great low end performance. And it's ok.
    My small Volvo runs at 2,2 bar, and it's awesome. Last year I installed Kinugawa billet wheel and I feel that it made some difference. In Volvo, I am not running blow-off valve anymore.
    In my knowledge Holsets love 2+ bar of boost. Finns and Swedes run 2,5-3 bar of boost on T4 Volvos (1855cc engine).

    Skyline has 3,5 inch exhaust.
    So, combined with #16 housing it should have low back pressure and temps.
    Wastegate is 50mm.

    In my Volvo I sometimes use brake boosting, just for fun, and it's great. I expect from RB25 to get a bit better results, at least a few hundreds of rpms.
    Things go very fast from 4000 rpm and I like that.


    Some more videos and content on my Instagram:
     
  19. Nite_Shayde

    Nite_Shayde Active Member

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    I might try and find a 12cm housing for your Skyline too. If you can't find a 12cm housing locally try KKD, he probably has some. IMO 16cm ones suit 3ltr+ engines or people wanting to extract as much power as possible from the turbo, and neither of these scenarios apply to you.

    That said, you can try the 16cm and then look for a 12cm if you're really not pleased with how it spools. Given the sort of spool you're used to though you will probably very well be happy with it, so again think about what your expectations are (how hung up on quick spool are you really). The difference won't be as big as people think either. The 3.5" downpipe/exhaust is good, you're right both pre and post-turbine backpressure should be kept low with that combo. But the 12cm wouldn't be a problem either, especially at 'only' 450hp. If possible I might look at installing some pressure sensors in both the manifold and downpipe to truly find out what's going on when it runs (if a 4" downpipe would benefit), but you'll most likely be ok.

    Honestly it sounds like your head is screwed on right and you'll be pleased with the setup given your experience and everything you're saying. That Volvo is badass. As you mention, just brake boost or (shock horror) if you have any conception of a manual gearbox, change down a gear or two so you're put right back into the powerband, and off you go. So again, ask yourself if you are absolutely concerned with getting the quickest spool possible.

    Yes, Holsets run what most of us would class as big boost on factory applications so they are designed to be run at higher boost pressures, so that's where they shine. Regardless, they're solid turbos that will do extremely well in any application that is spec'd properly, including delivering quick spool if things are done with that in mind. Yes, they're never going to spool like BorgWarner EFRs do, but no other turbos (Garretts included) have a patch on them either purely because of how light the EFR titanium aluminide turbine wheels are. You'd be silly to seriously compare a Holset to an EFR given their respective price points anyway, but I digress.

    At the risk of pissing some people off, I will say this; Holsets are generally used by people who have a budget. That's not a problem in itself, but it often means corners are cut with the build and things are done poorly. The result is the owner then blaming the turbo for being shit when really it's their own fault for not knowing how to implement the turbo in a properly thought out system that allows the turbo to operate the best it can. So when you go searching for examples and results of Holsets being used online, you really have to be careful and take most cases (ones which claim they are laggy, crap, diesel turbos, etc) with a grain of salt. Then there are various companies and people with an agenda who slate Holsets and feed further into the misinformation, but the point is simple: they are truly excellent turbos by any standard when implemented properly, and when you consider how much you can get them for, you're laughing.

    Thankfully, there are people out there who have brain cells and have used Holsets properly. This very thread contains evidence of that and is a real goldmine - some awesome builds that show what these turbos are truly capable of when you don't half-arse every other aspect of the build, as well as lots of wonderful advice that really anyone with a turbo should heed.

    Anyway, thank you for coming to my ted talk
     
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  20. Risto

    Risto New Member

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    Good post!

    I will see how it performs.
    I am running 2+ bar on Volvo, but probably with Skyline need 1,4 max.
    I rather use bigger exh housing than running high EGTs.

    In my country Holsets are also mostly used on budget builds. My Volvo is one. Although I have done everything properly and it lasts. My friend in Finland runs 700hp Volvo S40 T4 and is better build and uses HX40 with #20 something housing. His car used to be daily :) and has ten of thousands km’s on this power.
     
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