Turbo lag? What's that then?

Thread in 'Drifting Chat / Pictures / Videos' started by Stavros, Jul 20, 2012.

  1. Stavros

    Stavros Active Member

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    (Obv if you listen to the 'experts' on here, this would be no use at all and a clutch kick is just as good)
     
  2. OJCC

    OJCC Member

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    i have to say when he swithes it off it sound amazing
     
  3. Stavros

    Stavros Active Member

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    Any decent car with a good sized turbo and no dumpvalve sounds like that when they let off.
     
  4. cefiro_drifta

    cefiro_drifta Mad pointing Munky

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    seeing as im amazing at everything

    what is it ? like a switch to keep it spooling ?
     
  5. Stavros

    Stavros Active Member

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    yeah, full turbo speed at all times, any rpm, any throttle. What your seeing on the screen is turbo rpm, and thats about as fast as a turbo will safely spin. And the cars at idle.

    go to 1min 15sec on this vid and watch the impreza WRCs, they use it. launch just off idle at 3bar+
    http://youtu.be/LpBiZYVfTp8
     
    #5 Stavros, Jul 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2012
  6. cefiro_drifta

    cefiro_drifta Mad pointing Munky

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    HOLY shit balls that wrx launches hard lol... so how does it make it spool on idle ?

    in idiot terms if possible lol
     
  7. Stavros

    Stavros Active Member

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    I struggle to totally 100% understand it, esp as Prodrive always keep it secret, 99.8% of explanations on the net are total BS by people with no experience of it, and the anti-lag I've played with has always been throttle bypass or EGR anti-lag, this is a step beyond that.

    But here's the basics...

    Basically, it turns the turbo in to a jet engine (they very similar anyhow), all anti-lag does, but this seems to do it best.

    Turbo compressor feeds air into a combustion chamber just before turbine, there it ignites and spins the turbine, which spins the compressor, which feeds even more air into the combustion chamber, and so on until it gets faster n faster etc.
    Feeds air via a bypass valve from boost pipe to ex manifold (just like EGR anti-lag ive messed with).
    The bypass valve (its an electronic solenoid) can control the amount of air going from boost pipe to exhaust, and therefore control how wild it is.
    IMO I would say even if this wasnt controlled electronically, a normal wastegate to bleed off the exhaust gas would do the same job of stopping the turbo overspeeding,

    Bits that I'm still not 100% on is-
    Whats in the combustion chamber (rocket). Some say its hollow, some say its just like a combustion chamber on a jet engine. Fairly simple either way.
    The fuel and ign when its running- They claim nothing is changed from when its not. But without more fuel to go with the more air, IMO it should go so lean itd stop combusting. Fuck knows.
    The fuel and ign to start it- To get it going I wouldve thought it needed more than a good rev (like you see in the vid), Id've thought itd need more fuel and poss ign retard to get it ignited and started. But again, claims I've seen are nothing is changed.
     
    #7 Stavros, Jul 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2012
  8. kam

    kam I've touched Chris Parry

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    I'd just spec an SR with the right HKS turbo, this is a gimmick.
     
  9. Dan Lioneye

    Dan Lioneye Member

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    OK, here's the thing that's boggling me. I'm not saying "this is shit!" or "this is useless!" I'm just curious.

    Other than a launch off the line, I can't think of a situation where it would be effective, because it takes some time to build the boost in the first place and that's essentially lag.

    So while in motion, you may as well just drop a cog/clutch kick to counter the lag. Or am I looking at this totally wrong?
     
  10. kam

    kam I've touched Chris Parry

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    Totally wrong. ALS gives full boost, all the time.
     
  11. cefiro_drifta

    cefiro_drifta Mad pointing Munky

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    cheers for that stav :thumbs: i actually understoon that so you did good lol
     
  12. Ruishy1

    Ruishy1 Active Member

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    Stav your explanation is pretty much bang on, but they would HAVE to feed extra fuel in.
    And the combustion chamber wont be hollow, it will be like a cylinder with loads of holes drilled in it to slow the air down to make it easier to ignite.
     
  13. Stavros

    Stavros Active Member

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    Totally wrong.

    You let off the throttle after being on boost, and you stay on boost.
    You braking hard for a slow corner, the turbo still on full boost.
    And so on.

    I've ran proper anti-lag (albeit not this setup) and has up to about 28psi boost when 100% off throttle, hard on the brakes, and slowing for a corner.
    And same levels of boost while part throttling it around slow twisty sections of road.

    The difference it makes is night and day.

    The instant massive torque and throttle response makes a 2ltr turbo car feel like an 8ltr N/A engine.
     
  14. retro-ed

    retro-ed Flicks 'n' Kicks

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    Awesome!

    I reckon it would be awesome in drifting!

    Particalarly when twinning when you make many more throttle corrections. It doesn't matter how good your setup etc is, without ALS, in a lift, feather, full throttle move it still takes time (Fair enough it may only be a split second) to create +ve boost again. I love the idea of it because it would be like having a spastically powerfull NA engine in terms of responsiveness.
     
  15. Stavros

    Stavros Active Member

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    Indeed.

    This is the most believable explanation of it so far, though as I've yet to ever see any pics, for all I know this is someone making a guess due to this being exactly how jet engine combustion chambers work...

    "The combustor consists out of an inner tube (the flametube) with some organized holes around it's circumference and an outer tube. The air that is fed into the combustor gets divided into 2 air streams. One part is directed into the flametube, where it is mixed with fuel and ignited by a spark. The second air stream moves between the outer tube and the flametube and get's diluted via the holes into the flametube where the air/fuel mixture is constantly burning. At the same time the air that is not burned cools the combustor & flametube down. So you end up with an extremely oxygen rich exhaust gas and an EGT of around 600°C celcius, which isn't even hot enough to kill a VTG turbo."
     
  16. japdrifter_s13

    japdrifter_s13 running out of skill

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    So 2 questions if you run a turbo with anti lag and a screamer pipe, would that mean on idle the screamer pipe would be screaming all the time? Lol random but genuinely wondering ;)

    And secondly

    As I know nothing about cars that run anti lag, I assume that the car with anti lag turned on, the turbo would only produce as much boost as the actuator or wastegate is set up to do so right?
    I mean as soon as the anti lag is turned on it doesn't mean that suddenly the turbo will run unlimited boost?

    I'm intrigued :thumbs:
     
  17. Dex

    Dex kut!

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    jezus thats awesome! id fucking love that! that makes traffic light drags 10x more fun haha
     
  18. Stavros

    Stavros Active Member

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    1-
    Depends how much boost the ALS is giving and depending where the pressure source for the wastegate is coming from.
    If the ALS is giving more boost than the wastegate is set to AND the pressure source was pre-throttle, yes it would.
    If the pressure source was post throttle, the screamer wouldnt open at idle.

    2-
    Yes, as long as the wastegate was big enough, same as without ALS.
    If pressure source was post throttle then there could be (is) more boost pre-throttle (with the throttle totally shut) than the wastegate is set to, but the engine (post throttle) will only see the boost the wastegate is set to unless the wastegate is too small etc, same as overboost problems without ALS.
     
    #18 Stavros, Jul 20, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2012
  19. dale_b

    dale_b #DriftFactory

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    Lol, I'm casting my mind back to years ago when my friend and I built a gas turbine jet engine thing with a massive lorry turbo.. Stopped that when we ran it on A1 jet fuel and almost killed ourselves...
    I understand perfectly how this would work in a similar way on a turbo set up, but fuck me you'd need that to be properly built stuff, couldn't just throw something together...
    And yes, the combustion chamber we made had a tube through the middle with shit tons of holes to increase the turbulence.
     
  20. dale_b

    dale_b #DriftFactory

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    So to implement this type of system, you'd essentially have a combustion chamber between the exhaust mani and turbo? And would you have a fuel source feeding the combustion while not at full throttle so to speak? And an ignition source?
     

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